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THE Gun Toting Liberal Reaches Out To His Fellow Commentators -Slash- Co-Bloggers And Readers To Furnish Their Opinions On Any Of The Above Or Anything Else Political One Wishes To O-Pine On…
Wow, we’ve had a great run over the last few days with some very heartfelt, from-the-heart, down-and-dirty guest columns and subsequent discussions going on, what else is there to cover? PLENTY, I say. And being an Open Post opportunity, as usual, it is YOU, the reader -slash- co-blogger to have the last word…
So, what’s going on today in the political arena? Again — PLENTY…
SENATOR JAY ROCKERFELLER (D-W.VA), RIPS INTO THE HEALTH-CARE BILL DEVELOPED BY SENATOR MAX BAUCUS (D-MT), THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE OVER OBAMACARE PROPOSALS:?
That’s right, Democratic Senator Jay Rockerfeller is quite concerned (ABCNews) over Senator Baucus’ healthcare reform bill. He says it’ll cost the middle class the most (I didn’t realize there was still a legitimate “middle class” in this country today?). Not only do I share Senator Rockerfeller’s concerns, I will go one step further to remind you all there IS no “middle class” left in our country. Tune into “Leave It To Beaver” to learn what a TRUE “middle class” really IS and really USED to be. Call me a “populist” and I’m just FINE with that tag…
ACORN? AS “CRIMINAL” AS THEY APPEARED ON VIDEO AFTER ALL?
Yesterday, I RIPPED THE HELL out of ACORN for these videos just yesterday. As of today, the claims of some of the video participants seem to bear some merit after all. A “setup”? It seems so according to ABCNews, who has scraped it up and dug down to conduct some “investigative reporting” for once in a long time and has concluded one ACORN worker who claimed to believe she was being set up by one of those “Candid Camera” type shows, admitted to murdering her ex-hubby on tape. Unfortunately for anti-ACORN’ers, all her ex’s (still) live in Texas are alive and well. Hmm. Then again, it’s inconceivable a Republican activist group would ever pull a [Stephen] “Colbert” on a “lefty”, isn’t it? Stay tuned for more ridiculousness…
NOT CRAZY ABOUT PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S OBAMACARE? DOES THAT MEAN THERE IS A 12% CHANCE YOU ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A 2-BIT RACIST? THE POLLS SAY “AYE!”
The Right-Leaning Rasmussen Reports polling agency contends 67% of Anti-ObamaCare activists are convinced they’re not racists. Everybody else in the country accoring to the poll either disagree or aren’t quite SURE yet. Being a current resident in one of the “reddest” states in America, these numbers (the latter) seem quite low. From what I can tell, the racists who oppose not only ObamaCare down here are dissatisfied with the proposal due to the fact the president is [ahem... HALF] “black” in the first place — I’m estimating no less than FIFTY-PERCENT down here, so I’m not finding it hard to swallow the “over one-third” thing, myself. But that’s just MOI.
Annnnnnd, now it’s YOUR turn. Back to you, my friends.
***
So ACORN isn’t a criminal organization after all. WOW. BIG SURPRISE. I MEAN RILLY.
Thanks for following up on this, GTL. Next time, try to get both sides before you slander innocent people. ACORN is already under siege by right wing propaganda (lies) without liberals chipping in.
I gave $100 to ACORN last night. Will you join me?
For you moonbats, maybe a simple apology will do, but if you’re feeling magnanimous, maybe even a few minutes of STFU.
@bad dog, Bro, I don’t “PLAY” politics — or rather, I TRY not to. I just wanna know the truth and have it become common knowlege. There’s a “Right vs Left” and there’s a “Right vs Wrong” and I’d rather subscribe to the latter way of thinkin’
I cannot afford to donate $100 to any organization at this time since I lost my day gig @ a Fortune 500 after they shut my site down and put 90 of my employees, not including myself into the unemployment line. Life in America today, I suppose
@The GTL™, Correction: When I stated “not including myself”, I didn’t mean to insinuate I still have a job other than blogging (which, believe it or not, doesn’t even pay for my beer money) — it was more meant to sympathize with THEIR plight. Many of ‘em are now on foodstamps and welfare, and of course, the unemployment insurance they’ve been paying for for decades…
@The GTL™, By the way, let’s call these people what they are–HEROES:
Dick Durbin (D-IL)
Roland Burris (D-IL)
Robert Casey (D-PA)
Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY)
Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI)
They voted against crap even though it was politically inexpedient to do so. These are right vs. wrong politicians.
@The GTL™, You seem to have me confused with the kneejerk ideologues on this site. I agree with right vs. wrong–it’s called having consistent principles. My principles apply to both Republicans and Democrats. The funny thing about the moonbats on this site is there are plenty of legitimate things about the Democrats they could complain about, but they always seem to be drawn like a magnet to the wildest lies they can find and repeat the Big Lie until it becomes “true,” as in this case. They also have a blatant double standard, so to me, they are all about right vs. left instead of right vs. wrong. As for me, right now I’m complaining that the Democrats once again were spineless and voted to single out and attack a single organization–for something they didn’t do–but of course these cowards would never do the same to military contractors like Lockheed Martin, who actually were convicted of bilking the government out of billions. No, they get rewarded with more tax money.
In my view, GTL, the vicious propaganda attacks on ACORN were always a right vs. wrong issue. For some reason you seemed to think this was a disenfranchisement of voters issue. Well, it was, but not in the way you thought. It is a disenfranchisement issue in terms of the right wingers wanting to shut ACORN down so they can disenfranchise the poor.
@bad dog, I’ll give you one thing “Bad Dog”, you’re consistent all right, consistently WRONG.
@The GTL™,
Genuinely sorry to hear about that Bro. As someone who is only barely keeping the wolves at bay, I sympathize.
If it helps, you’re number one on my donation list, under the heading of “Street person crazy Leftists”.
@Chuck, LMFAO, bro! It’s alright… I’m a survivor
@bad dog, Just thought I’d point out “Moonbats” are usually crazy liberals. Wingnuts are crazy conservatives.
Generally they refer to two entirely different kinds of crazy. Wingnuts tend to be political stuff, moonbats tend to be new-agey-spirit-crystally-positive-thinking-woodoo. Both are prone to silly conspiracy theories. The weird thing is they kind of meet in the middle and attribute the conspiracy to the same targets for different reasons. There are wingnut democrats and moonbat republicans, but they’re pretty rare. The latter more rare than the former.
I kept thinking I’d heard the name Rasmussen somewhere other than the polling company. Finally gave up and looked it up. The host of one of the fallen angels in the Dresden Files. It’s kind of fitting.
@GTL: I know a bunch of the anti-HC crowd hate it because it was proposed by someone with a D after his name. I know a LOT of those, actually. It wouldn’t matter if the man proposed negative taxes and free beer every day. They’d still be pissed. Free beer is socialism, after all. So free beer is wrong. (A phrase I consider heretical.)
As for middle class goes…I’m not sure what we’d call middle class. anymore. I know a lot of borderline poor people consider themselves middle class. The way I always defined MC was pretty much “Being able to live reasonably comfortably without worrying about an unforseen circumstance completely wiping any hope for the future out.” So yeah, I’d agree: There’s probably no middle class anymore. Even if you make 100k a year and consider yourself well into upper middle class territory, all it takes is one bad roll to destroy you. Ignoring sickness, there’s still a myriad of ways to be annihilated by one shitty draw. To give the conservatives some real ammunition, one way is at least mostly the fault of our current vice president. You know, those blatantly unconstitutional asset forfeiture laws from a couple years back? Those. He seems to have rethought his position, but like a typical politician isn’t going to admit to ever having made a mistake and certainly isn’t going to do anything about it. You want something to go after him for, that should be it. I won’t defend him, I promise. It’s unlikely any other liberals will either.
It’s kinda hard to elaborate too much on these laws without ending up with a six page post. A point in the republicans’ favor: One of them rammed through a law trying to shift the burden of proof in AFLs a good while back. Neither set of laws passed on party lines…But it was a republican that proposed the shifting of proof one. Amusingly, this is counted as a liberal vote by all the watchdog sites. Damned activist liberal republicans!
Clearly your readers should buy you beer every chance they get.
@JThompson, Great post man, and thanks for clearing up the “moonbat” thing. Was getting sick of being called on by the true “moonbat” on this site….I would much rather be a “wingnut” anyday…never really got my arms around the former…keep commenting sir, seems the “moonbat” dog put his tail between his legs and hide…maybe you are his “pack leader”…hee hee
@CLD, Look at CLD. He’s like the homeless guy in the alley who rambles to himself.
Hm, he looks like a moonbat to me … Yup, he’s a moonbat.
@JThompson, I totally disagree with the assessment that their is no middle class in this country. It is more likely that the middle class has expanded so much that there is virtually no (I hate to use the term but no better option right now) lower class. (I mean that purely as an economic measure) Even the poorest among us in the U.S. live very well compared to the true poor people around the world (e.g. Obama’s half-brother in Kenya who lives in a tin shack on about a dollar a month).
I hear this coming from the left repeatedly. What is exactly (or approximately) the basis for the statement that there is no middle class in this country? Seriously. I have never heard the rationale for that conclusion.
@Fandb, The middle class still exists, it’s just increasingly maintaining the traditional middle class quality of life through debt. There is a lower class in this country and they are better off than, say, people who are dead, yes, but they are still in poverty. At least 13 million, I believe.
@bad dog, That depends on how you define poverty. The “poverty level” in the U.S. would be “upper class” in many countries.
@Fandb, Yeah, and somebody fighting a losing battle against cancer is better off than somebody who is dead, but they’re still terminally ill.
@JThompson, I do agree with your comment that you’ve got to watch those “damned activist liberal republicans”, they are a pesky bunch aren’t they?
@JThompson, Don’t forget the wingbats and moonnuts.
@bad dog, Let’s see your evidence this time “Bad Dog”. Even the head of ACORN yesterday ADMITTED that the people video taped in the act of offering CRIMINAL ADVICE on how to set up a brothel that would employ 13 yeaar old prostitutes HAD BEEN FIRED FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
So even ACORN admits their guilt but you still can’t. Hmmmm….
@Fandb, Firing an employee who goofed around on camera and gave your organization all this grief is not an admission of guilt.
You would know this if you would apply a tiny bit of mental effort here instead of parroting what you’ve been told.
I’m not going to insult your intelligence, FandB. I know you have it. You just dramatically misapply it.
I know you want to be right and to win, but at least try to use some analytical thinking.
@bad dog, You need to find better sources for your news BD, I mean other than the Kos and your imagination.
@Fandb, You were proven wrong about the 1.2 million teabaggers and you’re being proven wrong about ACORN being “criminal.”
There are actually real things to complain about the Democrats. Why not use that big brain of yours to actually find something real to complain about?
@bad dog, This whole thing is beginning to snowball. Many state and local jurisdictions are beginning to cut funding and launch their own investigations. Even New York state is considering cutting their funding to the criminal organization known as ACORN. Some are considering prosecutions under RICO.
How far up the chain will these investigations reach? Maybe as high as one of their former trainers and legal advisers? Who can tell. But apparently the prosecutorial gloves are coming off.
Better send them another $100 BD, they’re gonna need it!
Stay tuned.
@Fandb, There is no “snowballing.” This is more made-up blather. There are Republicans calling for a McCarthyite lynching, but other than your minor propaganda win with the spineless Democrats in the Senate, there is no avalanche of public opinion other than in your own imagination.
Still waiting for you, by the way, to denounce the Republican Party. They are actually a criminal organization. And military contractors like Lockheed Martin. Genuine criminal organizations.
I hear crickets. What, a DOUBLE STANDARD? YOU? WHAAAA?
The $100 has already been sent. And as promised, after your post, now I owe them another $20.
Be right back …
@bad dog, Now the House has also voted to de-fund the criminal organization known as ACORN. Democrat “Representatives” who voted against de-funding face a chorus of “WTF?” from their constituents back home. I’ll bet a good number of those seats are filled by Republicans after the 2010 elections.
Many state and local governments are also de-funding ACORN, including New York state. And many are launching their own investigations into rampant criminal activity within ACORN.
That’s another $20 you owe them “Bad Dog”. Send it soon before they go belly up.
@Fandb, I just got a GOP press release saying the Republic of Venus is also going to defund ACORN, that a special military tribunal is being set up to investigate the underground lairs recently exposed by melting Arctic ice, and that God Himself is “highly displeased.”
$20 for ACORN, coming right up!
Sorry to make you sad, but even after all the above fictitious money stops fictitiously arriving in ACORN’s coffers from all the fictitious defunding activities–like the $200 billion of TARP money the fruitloop right wingers said was going to be given to them–but even after all this, ACORN is going to basically keep doing what it’s always done, helping poor people. Poor families will continue to receive help having lead paint removed from their dwellings so their kids don’t grow up retarded. They will continue to receive assistance in getting food stamps so their kids don’t end up malnourished. They will continue to receive help in foreclosure situations so they don’t lose their homes. They will continue to get help claiming and using their right to vote.
I know that pisses you off, as right wingers hate poor people, but you’ll just have to live with it.
And to celebrating seeing yet another slice of reality piss you off, I’m going to give a bonus $20 to ACORN right now.
@bad dog, I know you feel bad about your little criminal organization known as ACORN. Too bad people found out what they’re really all about. You can whine and cry and wet your little panties all night, but that won’t change the situation.
Too bad they didn’t get the lead paint out of your house when you were a little kid.
I really don’t care how much money you give them, I think you should go out and do fundraising for them if you want, I just don’t want them to get tax dollars.
@Fandb, You can’t give ACORN what it never had, FandB.
So what’s it like to vote for candidates fielded by the criminal GOP? After all, Ted Bundy worked for the GOP. And he wasn’t horsing around on camera. He, like, murdered people and stuff. He was a pervert, too, just like all the other convicted, criminal Republican perverts.
So you’re mad as hell at the GOP for being a criminal organization because you have consistent logic and real principles and you’re not just out to score a cheap, whorish little propaganda win that ultimately means nothing–
[snort] I just couldn’t say that with a straight face.
Time to give ACORN another $20.
@Fandb, who says, “Too bad they didn’t get the lead paint out of your house when you were a little kid.”
Leave to a soulless right winger to make a joke out of the fact that poor kids grow up in homes with lead paint, and end up mentally retarded.
And this from the guy who pretends he has a moral compass and who will arrogantly tell you that has the sole correct interpretation of the Bible.
Typical right wing ***hole.
@bad dog, No, I’m making a joke out of the fact that you are an ignorant idiot, and a bigot on top of that.
But we weren’t talking about you or Ted Bundy you moron, we were talking about ACORN. Duh.
BD: “Typical right wing ***hole.” — Only to people who deserve it, people like you “Bad Dog”.
@Fandb, Use the other 99% of your brain and you’ll figure out the connection.
“… You are an ignorant idiot, and a bigot on top of that.”
Wow, you’re such a meanie. Civil discourse, RIP!
@Fandb, F&B, you are the greatest!
“Bad Dog”: (There was no “Reply” link on BD’s last comment)…
There was nothing but “Civil Discourse” on this site before you came here. It didn’t matter if the commenter was a democrat, republican, socialist, communist… Everyone treated all other commenters with respect.
So don’t pretend that you want “civil discourse”, I know that you don’t.
Again, we were talking about ACORN. I will take your repeated attempts to change the subject as an acknowledgement that I am right about the criminal organization known as ACORN, and you realize that you are wrong.
@Fandb, I’m sure you found the right wing circle jerk to be very “civil discourse” before I showed up.
Here’s a brief dramatization:
“What do you think, are liberals stupid and evil?”
“No. I STRONGLY disagree. They are not only stupid and evil, they also plot the end of western civilization. That MUST be considered.”
“Rilly! Don’t forget they have no moral compass but WE do!”
“I know! They’re so mean, too!”
If you think you people (you, Joe Lovell, CLD, GDA and all his incarnations) came even close to respecting liberals, you’re even more thoughtless than I previously believed, and that’s saying something. It staggers the rational mind how unaware you people are about your own statements and actions and exactly how offensive they are.
What you don’t like is somebody actually calling you on it.
Boo hoo for you, friend!
ACORN: Case in point.
You were already proven wrong about ACORN and caught lying about it, just as you were caught passing on lies about the size of your tiny little tempest in a teapot in Washington.
Of course, pointing out that you’re lying makes me the bad guy, and doesn’t deter you for a moment from continuing to lie.
Why don’t you use 9/11 again to try to make me be quiet?
Sorry dopes, the wingnut birther lawsuit against Obama has been dismissed:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/16/connie-rhodes-birther-cha_n_288814.html
Now you’ll have to find something else to pretend to get upset about
@bad dog, It is really interesting, from a psychological point of view, how you always try to change the subject when you find yourself whipped in a discussion.
Have you always been this way, or is it something that developed over time? I most often see this behavior in people who would be considered good candidates for “going postal”.
You haven’t been hearing other “bad dogs” talking to you lately, have you?
Just curious.
@Fandb,
Its Saul Alinsky’s field manual for Radicals. Classic.
Want to read something funny folks?
http://nukegingrich.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/hillaryclintonthesis.pdf
You might find that an interesting read.
Its Hillary Rodhams Political Science Thesis.
its titled……….There is only one fight……an analysis of the Alinsky model.
The Alinsky handbook runs deep and has powerful friends in high places. Its the model thats been in play for 40 years.
@GawdDayumAmerica,
Perhaps, just as interestingly, the soon-to-be-future Wal-Mart Director by the name of Sir Hillary Rodham Clinton, near or at the time of this referenced thesis, was a die-hard Republican activist who was working her tail off to get Barry Goldwater elected to the Oval Office
@The GTL™,
Ahh yes I fergit the hated the far left has even for the Clintons. Seems she wasnt a good socialist.
@The GTL™, ” was a die-hard Republican activist” — Yeah, until she moved over to the dark side.
@Fandb,
Dont forget Ronald Reagan was a democrat, worked for Barry Goldwater and the GOP loves him. He was a neocon.
I find that funny actually because I had suggested in all honesty that Hillary Clinton be John McCains running mate.
Wouldnt it be great to have a bipartisan cabinet…1/2 democrats. 1/2 republicans. one libertarian.
Wouldnt it be great to have a balanced budget so we could afford health care for all and still have a budget surplus?
Wouldnt it be great to have 4 percent unemployment, low taxes and still have enough money to fight poverty?
Wouldn’t it be great if bad dog doesnt chime in on this thread and call me Adolph Hitler and reiterate how much he hates me?
Wouldnt it just be great?
@GawdDayumAmerica, Dang, GDA. Good points, I’ll take them one by one.
I was (or thought I was) a democrat too, until Carter nearly destroyed the country and President Reagan saved it.
I also thought that Hillary would have been the perfect running mate for McCain. A true bipartisan administration at a time when the country really needed it. (But then the antichrist Obama The Indonesian came along to make sure we spent the next 4 years in the gutter.)
Bipartisan cabinet? Probably not, they would kill each other. But it would be nice to see cabinet members selected on the basis of their ability, rather than through the Chicago school of political cronyism.
No. Balanced budgets are for losers and sissies. We need to live life on the edge, go for the gusto, pay back the trillions of dollars we borrow with dollars that are worth 50 cents.
Yes. And if you can manage to hold unemployment at 4% long enough, there will be no more poverty in this country.
If “Bad Dog” stopped calling you Hitler, etc., that would mean that his crush on you was over, and he would have to find another object for his affection.
@Fandb,
They’d have gotten along famously, actually — probably getting drunk of their a$$es on a regular occasion. Not only are McCain and H. Clinton well-known to be great friends, they are also well-known drinking buddies, too…
@The GTL™, OK, Let’s start it up . . .
McCain-Clinton 2012 !!!!!
@Fandb,
LMFAO, BRO!!! Nawww — I’ll leave that part up to you, my friend
@Fandb, who says, “No. Balanced budgets are for losers and sissies. We need to live life on the edge, go for the gusto, pay back the trillions of dollars we borrow with dollars that are worth 50 cents.”
If you really don’t like overspending, you have your friends in the Republican Party to thank for it.
“If “Bad Dog” stopped calling you Hitler, etc., that would mean that his crush on you was over, and he would have to find another object for his affection.”
How can one have a crush on a gnat? Seriously, you guys seem to think you’re a big deal in my world. Get over yourselves.
@GawdDayumAmerica, And GDA once again shows that he has been reading Mein Kampf. The Big Lie shows itself again.
How were your Nazi dreams last night? Did you lynch any black people?
@GawdDayumAmerica, Hillary’s thesis was a very interesting read, and she does write well. Good find GDA!
Now, wouldn’t it be interesting to read Obama’s senior thesis . . . Oh, yeah, that’s right, he refuses to release it. Hmmmmmm…
@Fandb, What is he hiding????? What is he hiding!?!?!?!? WHAT IS HE HIDING???????????????????????????????
@Fandb, Huh? This is a “free for all” discussion. There is the above thread, about ACORN, where I kicked your ass for overreaching, and there is this discussion, where I kick your ass for associating yourself with the birther nutjobs.
I know it’s not fair that BD doesn’t let you win sometimes. You’ll get your day. Don’t worry, little guy.
@bad dog, Dayumn, BD! And I thought I typed fast!
@bad dog,
You haven’t kicked my ass yet BD, or anyone else’s for that matter. Keep trying though. I’m sure your Rachel Maddow/Daily Kos talking points will work one of these days.
@Fandb, The truth has worked wonders so far. Or rather, your sticking with Michelle Malkin is working wonders. Maybe I should give her $20, too!
Using an open thread to follow up on yesterday’s excellent question. Would Jesus vote against universal health care? After some reflection, and some sleep, it seems Jesus was quite neutral to national politics of His day. He could have complained about taxes but he didn’t. He could have complained about poor government service, but He didn’t. The only criticism it seemed He expressed was that against what might be considered His own denomination’s leaders. I would equate that today to perhaps a Baptist speaking out against wrongs by Baptist leadership, a Catholic speaking out against wrongs of Catholic leadership, a conservative Republican speaking out against the wrongs of the Bush administration and other republican leaders, and a liberal Democrat speaking out against……..The People’s Republic of China, Castro, and the “morality is for wingnuts” people of Acorn. Oh, I’m good at making myself laugh sometimes! That was total snark. But as far as O’Keefe’s expose on ACORN, that one San Bernadino clip means what? On its face it looks like bad acting. Bad acting may be 1) O’Keefe got played in this case. Or 2) O’Keefe engineered it, telling the employee what to say.
3) Some other form of deception, perhaps the employee trying to play along in order to report them to authorities and catch them. So what? The tapes in D.C. and Baltimore doesn’t have bad acting on it, if it is acting, it is world class, those fired employees if they were acting need to move to Hollywood and start making movies themselves. Not one bad apple in one barrel but a bunch of bad acorns. As far as setting people up, when did that ever stop 60 minutes show or Chris Hansen’s catch a predator show?
@Mike 300 Spartans,
I can only respond to this by saying……”My kingdom is not of this world.”
@Mike 300 Spartans, I agree with GDA. Jesus expressed that he was not so much concerned about the physical things as the metaphysical, the spiritual.
I would also agree that Mike300′s analogy is accurate (including the snark), Jesus’ criticisms were directed at the church leadership, and at the phony believers (hypocrites) more than anyone else. His response regarding taxation; “give to Caesar that which belongs to Caesar…” indicated that He would not argue about what many at the time considered to be unfair and excessive taxation. Again, the key point being the importance of the Spiritual over the physical.
@Fandb, Uh, no. Read the Bible, guys.
If you want to get into this, I’d be happy to. But you couldn’t be more wrong.
@bad dog, Go for it BD. Your arguments so far have proven that a ‘little’ knowledge is a dangerous thing.
@Fandb, The Jews of the time believed that the world would end and the Messiah would destroy the Romans, Israel would fill the world, and nobody would have to work or pay taxes anymore. (Substitute “USA” for “Israel,” and it sounds like a Teabagging Party). Jesus believed the end was coming in his generation. This is why he said give everything away now, go to bed shoed and clothed, if somebody hits you don’t hit them back. Because none of that stuff would matter soon. The Messiah was coming any minute and would you be ready to face God clean? He believed he was that Messiah. He called himself the Son of Man, symbolic for “Everyman,” nobody special, an object of pain and scorn, but privately confessed to Peter that he was also the Son of God, the Messiah, or would be once he died at the hands of the Romans and returned in spiritual form “riding on the clouds” to destroy the Roman Empire and exalt Israel. “Thy Kingdom Come and thy will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven.”
We are still waiting for his return, and therefore the imperative has not changed. This is the essence of Christian dogma. Not the oversimplified, “I’m sorry, now forgive me, yay, I get to live forever.”
So Jesus was very, very concerned about how we conduct ourselves in the physical world.
P.S. Jesus also said render unto Caesar, which means pay your taxes without complaint, and Paul talked about divine right of leaders, which means our leaders are chosen by God, so you teabaggers had better stop horsing around about Obama. You’re going to get God mad and we might end up with another 9/11 or New Orleans!
@bad dog, What? Is that the best you can do? Other than misinterpret and misrepresent a couple parts, all you did was agree with Mike300 and GDA.
@Fandb, Huh? So God told you the only way to read the Bible? Holy ****, the arrogance of you people staggers the mind.
Let me play that game. I interpreted it correctly and YOU misinterpret it and misrepresent it. I can recommend some good Bible classes so you can brush up before trying to have a conversation about religion without getting the basic facts wrong.
Plus in no way did I agree with Mike300 and GDA. In that, I can DEFINITELY say you misinterpreted and misrepresented what I wrote.
@bad dog, Don’t you ever come up with anything new, “Bad Dog”? All you do is whine and yelp about how mean all the conservatives are, misinterpreting your little “comments”.
Grow a couple, will ya?
Or are you afraid if you do your panties won’t fit good any more.
@Fandb, So you have nothing to say after I called you on your arrogance at pretending your interpretation of the Bible is the sole interpretation. That’s okay. You’ll think of something.
@bad dog,
Right what Bad Dog is saying that being poor is what god wants.
Therefore ACORN is the antichrist by trying to bring the poor out of poverty. perfect. I thought their was something fishy about Acorn.
@GawdDayumAmerica, No, what I was saying is you’re an idiot.
Don’t get mad at me, GTL! God told me to tell him that.
@GawdDayumAmerica, No, ACORN isn’t the antichrist. But maybe one of their leaders is.
Careful BD, I think the Illuminati are reading your thoughts again.
@Fandb, Then the Illuminati know I think you’re an ass.
Those FIENDS!
I better buy a tin foil hat off a Birther to keep them from reading my mind!
@bad dog, in reference to “no one would work or pay taxes”, do you believe the Jews at that time thought no one in the world would work, or that the Jews believed at that time the Messiah would restore them to what they considered their rightful place, as rulers over everyone else?
How do you conclude that the reason for the “turn the other cheek” policy was based off the perceived closeness of the end? Are you saying that, had Jesus believed the new kingdom was much farther off in the future, his policy then would have been, “If someone slaps you, kick them in the groin.” ?
@ no one in particular- Jesus showed a lot of concern for people’s physical needs in addition to their spiritual needs. He certainly did a lot of feeding the hungry and healing the physically ill, but He made no attempt to meet these needs through any political process.
@Mike 300 spartans, Mike, the Jews believed at the time that the Kingdom of God would actually come to Earth, not that Earth would end and everybody would be Raptured to a blissful non-corporeal Heaven. They had little concept of a spiritual afterlife. They wanted relief from their troubles. They thought they would not work, that the wind would sweep wheat out of valleys and rain manna, that the Romans and the Gentiles would be cast into darkness to wail and gnash their teeth, etc. Heaven is hardly mentioned at all in the Bible. Nor is the story of the Fall of Satan, etc. That’s all from the Book of Enoch, which is a Jewish mystical text that is not part of the accepted Bible.
The reason “turn the other cheek” was based on the perceived closeness of this End of Days was Jesus basically saying, Why get upset and waste your time and energy on anger when God’s coming any minute now? I can’t say what Jesus’ policy would have been if he didn’t believe he was the Messiah whose death would usher in the End Times. But as a Jew, he preached, and probably would preach regardless of the circumstances, to do unto other as you would have them do unto you. That’s the “Golden Rule,” and it was a part of Judaism long before Jesus–that, and famous desert hospitality we see in the story of Lot, for example. The reason Lot gave up his daughters to the mob instead of his guest is giving up his guest, to whom he had given hospitality and shelter and sanctuary, actually would have been more shameful than handing over his virgin daughters to be gang-raped by a mob.
But he may have been more of a firebrand to the Romans if he did not see himself as the Messiah. The Jews revolted yet again just 40 years later and the Romans were so fed up they destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews. This is despite many privileges the Jews had from the Romans compared to other conquered peoples. The Jews refused to recognize any king but God, and the average Jew suffered greatly under Roman rule.
Jesus never said, don’t mind your troubles, you’ll be okay after you die. He was immediately concerned with people’s physical well being in the physical world.
@bad dog, It isn’t that I have nothing to say “Bad Dog”. I do have a life, unlike you apparently. I can’t spend all my time on the computer.
I’ll give you credit for one thing, your interpretations of the Bible and the teachings of Jesus are quite unique. No one else in the world is that far off base.
Anyway, I won’t get into this discussion with you. You believe whatever you want to believe about Christianity, the Bible, and Jesus. And I will ignore your Bible related comments, you are clearly self-taught in this area and you seem to ignore the parts of the Bible that don’t suit your pre-conceived mis-interpretations.
With one exception… Your last comment is a distortion of Jesus’ teachings. Refer to Matthew starting at 6:25 or so, through 6:34. In fact, Matthew 6:1-34 is all very inspiring and relevant. And also, Luke 12:8-12 and 12:22-34. As I said before, Jesus is concerned less with the physical than the Spiritual. Yes, of course He did things to heal the sick and help the poor. But the core of His teaching is that your Spiritual needs are more important than your physical needs.
Also, BD, your comment that “heaven” is hardly ever mentioned in the Bible? What do you consider to be hardly ever? Less than five hundred? According to BibleGateway.com, which has searchable versions of a large number of different translations, the word ‘heaven’ or ‘heavens’ occurs 606 times. Yeah, hardly ever mentioned, riiiiight “Bad Dog”.
@Fandb, who says, “I’ll give you credit for one thing, your interpretations of the Bible and the teachings of Jesus are quite unique. No one else in the world is that far off base.”
Not unique at all. They are widely held among Biblical scholars. But like global warming, economics, healthcare or anything else for that matter, why should you know or care what actual experts have to say? YOU know everything.
“And I will ignore your Bible related comments, you are clearly self-taught in this area and you seem to ignore the parts of the Bible that don’t suit your pre-conceived mis-interpretations.”
Wow, what seminar did you go to?
“With one exception… Your last comment is a distortion of Jesus’ teachings. Refer to Matthew starting at 6:25 or so, through 6:34. In fact, Matthew 6:1-34 is all very inspiring and relevant. And also, Luke 12:8-12 and 12:22-34. As I said before, Jesus is concerned less with the physical than the Spiritual. Yes, of course He did things to heal the sick and help the poor.”
I’m more concerned with the rest of the Gospels outside of those citations, which support my point of view. But again, you believe what you want to believe. I could play this obnoxiously, like you … In fact, I will. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Your view of the Bible is twisted and you’re going to Hell.
Wow, being a right winger is fun!!!
“But the core of His teaching is that your Spiritual needs are more important than your physical needs.”
Again, that’s your interpretation, and you’re welcome to it.
“Also, BD, your comment that “heaven” is hardly ever mentioned in the Bible? What do you consider to be hardly ever? Less than five hundred? According to BibleGateway.com, which has searchable versions of a large number of different translations, the word ‘heaven’ or ‘heavens’ occurs 606 times. Yeah, hardly ever mentioned, riiiiight “Bad Dog”.”
You are correct that Heaven is mentioned frequently. What I meant is it is not described.
Once again, your arrogance that your interpretation of the Bible is the sole correct interpretation is astounding. You can explain that arrogance to Satan when you go to Hell.
@bad dog, Your comments above tell everything that anyone really needs to know about “Bad Dog”.
I especially like the “What I meant is…” backpedaling when your earlier comment was proven to be wrong.
But then you try to bash all republicans (9/18 column) who defended Rush Limbaugh’s comments as sarcasm but had been taken out of context. I know you think it’s OK for you to do it but not OK for others.
You need to leave Biblical interpretations to the Biblical scholars that you mentioned, and stop trying to mislead people by misquoting and mis-interpreting the Gospel.
K?
@Fandb, You need to stop pretending your the sole authority on the Bible–or anything, for that matter. After all, since everything you believe is wrong, if you’re the sole authority on the Bible, I might have to become an atheist. But if that’s the only way you can deal with a conversation about the Gospels because of your ignorance, I accept your surrender and suggest we move on. Let’s just say you’re right, and the rest of the world is wrong. Okie dokie.
@Fandb, Oops! I slipped up and used two identical texts as F&B and posted them pretty close to the same time. Perhaps I’m just F&B under a different e-mail account!
people might piece together what I say about the military and discover I’m actually Frank Burns from M*A*S*H! Ah, time for me to run for cover, ah..let’s see , first let me say: “It is all Clinton’s fault!” then let me take on a new identity. Call me Dr. Mortimor Alowishus Brenner McGuillicutty. Pardon my rambling, I need sleep. Oh well, must be a coded message from the illuminate. What do you think F&B? Should I take off my tin foil hat and rest my head on a tin foil pillow? 
@Mike 300 Spartans, FandB sells tin foil hats wholesale. He’ll probably get you one super cheap.
Don’t worry about sounding incoherent, Mike, you still sound more coherent than CLD.
@bad dog, And “Bad Dog” is my biggest “tin foil hat” customer.
Don’t worry, you’re always much more coherent than “Bad Dog”.
I would mention the old adage that “great minds think alike” but I wouldn’t want to insult you that way. Maybe we both chose the same texts because they express the strong spiritual nature of Christ’s teachings.
@Mike 300 Spartans, Pssst. When you buy your tin foil hat from FandB, can you tell him to wear one himself. I just got a call from the ACORN Secret Underground Lair and they said they can read his thoughts loud and clear with their nefarious mind-reading equipment, but they’re kind of sick of it. Apparently, there are so much twisted fruitloop logic in there it’s making the evil ACORN henchmen’s heads explode. Maybe if he wore the tin foil hat along with the rest of the teabaggers, it would save everybody a lot of trouble.
@bad dog, Wow, I just can’t keep up with the volume, if I could, it would probably sound something like: agree, agree, disagree, agree, interesting I didn’t know that, agree , agree, disagree, agree, agree.
Ofcourse given this site’s (and my own) propensity for contention, let me just hit a couple disagreements. You gave a reason why Lot gave up his daughters in the Sodom story, while I would agree on the reason you gave, my recollection of the story was that Lot offered his daughters but the men declined the offer. Dare I suggest you may be confusing this with the story in the book of Judges, in a very similar situation a man pushed out his concubine that got gang raped all night and he found her dead in the morning.
As far as Jesus never saying don’t mind your troubles, I would contend that He did. In Matthew 6:25 and also one of my favorites Luke 12:25 Worrying doesn’t make you any taller.
But one thing I believe, althought it may not match the time line you contend is there, that Jesus will return some day to earth and we may be caught up in the air and visit heaven, but we will after a time, return to this earth that has been purged of all sin, death, and pain, and we will live on earth, not as ghosts but as real live humans, with the “slight” change of being immortal.
@Mike 300 spartans, You’re right about the story of Lot and his daughters. You are correct, I got it confused with the story in Judges where the Levite offers his concubine, and the crowd does take her, and she dies the next morning, and the priest is so mad he cuts her up and sends parts of her to all the tribes so they could come and make war on the Tribe of Benjamin. The story of Lot ends up with Lot impregnating his daughters because his daughters through the end of the world had come. Don’t you just love the Old Testament?
Anyhow, the central point stands about Lot and his daughters. He offered them up to avoid having to truly shame himself by giving up his guest.
Thanks for the Matthew quote. I like Matthew, because he actually knew Jesus unlike Luke and Mark, and he didn’t take a mystical slant like John. Matthew was writing to the Jews, and so it rings more true since Jesus himself was a Jew. (Remember Jesus said he did not come to throw away the Law of Moses but to make it even stricter.) Anyway, in 6:25, which I didn’t check but this whole section looks like the Sermon on the Mount, he is not saying don’t worry about your troubles because after you die you’ll be resurrected in bliss. He is saying your troubles are not as important as righteousness–which meant observing the Law strictly–nor as important as the Kingdom of God, which would take away all want.
The passage in Luke ends the same way. Seek the Kingdom of God and all your (physical) wants will be taken care of.
The weird thing about Jesus’ return is it didn’t seem to coincide even with his own expectations. He said that the Messiah will come on the “clouds of heaven with power and great glory … Truly, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.” (Matthew 24:29-34) Jesus also says to his followers, “For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who swill not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:27-28) After his death, the disciples made no effort to record his words until they were old, around the age of 70, around the time of the sack of Jerusalem. They thought he was coming back in their lifetimes. The Jews who were still following Jesus, waiting in the Temple patiently for his return, were all basically killed.
To me, it’s the most puzzling aspect of the Gospels, even more troubling than him killing the mustard tree for seemingly no reason, and saying he speaks in riddles so most people don’t understand him, but only shares his truth plainly for a select group.
(Cue FandB to barge in blustering I’m reading a Satanic Bible and misinterpreting and twisting God’s word in some atheist plot worthy of an entire hour of Glenn Beck–because I’m “self taught,” as opposed to being a fully trained doctor of divinity.)
@bad dog, What pleasent words to hear. For you to say I was right. Yes, I do love the Old Testament, I was tempted in adding the gore in my post, but thanks for covering it for me. I like the follow up story on that one too, you know, the town that gets banned from getting wives from the others, then they feel bad about it so they just assemble a bunch of girls together in order for the wife-needing men of the town to just jump out from their hiding places and grab them a wife.
Guys,
A coworker (he’s a center-ish guy and O’Bomber voter, but I still like him, ha ha ha) forwarded this me today. Seems to be a well written (and long) article about the current state of affairs in Healthcare, or better yet Heath Insurance. I read through it quickly, but don’t have an opinion at this point – need to digest it further as it is very long.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care
If you read it, feel free to reply. I’m curious about some of the assertions made here and what you guys think (lefties and my fellow wingnuts, heh heh heh). Especially if you are closer to the Heathcare field than I am.
Steve
@SJ,
I’ve already read this article SJ.
In a nutshell let me put his premise on paper.
Indeed, I suspect that our collective search for villains—for someone to blame—has distracted us and our political leaders from addressing the fundamental causes of our nation’s health-care crisis. All of the actors in health care—from doctors to insurers to pharmaceutical companies—work in a heavily regulated, massively subsidized industry full of structural distortions.
The healthcare industry is so regulated that its no longer capable of being profitable. When my mother was in the hospital this last time the nurse would take 20 minutes to give her one pill. She had to check the wristband, ask her name….enter the information into a computer…scan her wristband….verify that the medicine she was getting was the proper medicine….she then had another CNA verify the writing on the pill…….finally my mom got the medicine.
Over regulation because of so much litigation. Why is our costs out of whack….to prevent worker errors which still occur. But we dont want to address that. We want villians. With Bush and his defeat we need villians.
When Clinton was in office he was a villian. When Bush was in office he was a villain.
@GawdDayumAmerica,
Hey GDA,
I’m re-reading it now (during some mini breaks at work, heh heh heh) and I’m really impressed, especially the insights into the real problem. This is the discussion we should be having, but are not.
Steve
It has been a number of days ago when I watched that video clip of Hitler talking against Obama’s school speech. It was a little funny, albeit I’ve seen a few others of the same clip, Dallas Cowboys, Death of Michael Jackson, and the best IMO Hilter reacting to all the clips of him on youtube.
Here’s a funny song, if you all haven’t already heard it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9HS8n8Y4qo
I took your libertarian test.
I was -1.88 and .46 or 2 lines to the left of center and barely above the center line.
Which really doesnt surprise me because I really do consider myself a moderate and I do in fact vote for both democrats and republicans.