Loading ...Answer: INDEED.
Remember when our country was being run by a Republican Congress, a Republican Senate and a Republican president? Those were the “good ole’ days”, weren’t they? All it took for America to see how ugly our country appears under complete G.O.P. rule was to watch them in action for a few years. And so in 2006 We, The People, rebelled and elected a Democratic Congress and a Democratic Senate and all was well “bidness as usual” on Capitol Hill as FORMER President “Surge” W. Bush finally learned what the phrase “Veto Pen” represented, thus, rendering House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s 100 Hour Agenda “null and void”.
The result? A government that worked for a short while and, of course, it’s a huge stretch to put it that way. After all, the less bills, the less laws, the greater our individual freedoms and civil liberties for the most part. Blanket statement?
Anyhow, even though I’ve often opinined on this very subject again and again, Mr. David Brooks of The New York Times has written his own Op-Ed on the topic — a “must read” in its entirety entitled “Liberal Suicide March” (H/T as usual to MemeOrandum for the pull…)…
Some prime “snips”:
… It was interesting to watch the Republican Party lose touch with America. You had a party led by conservative Southerners who neither understood nor sympathized with moderates or representatives from swing districts.
They brought in pollsters to their party conferences to persuade their members that the country was fervently behind them. They were supported by their interest groups and cheered on by their activists and the partisan press. They spent federal money in an effort to buy support but ended up disgusting the country instead.
It’s not that interesting to watch the Democrats lose touch with America. That’s because the plotline is exactly the same. The party is led by insular liberals from big cities and the coasts, who neither understand nor sympathize with moderates. They have their own cherry-picking pollsters, their own media and activist cocoon, their own plans to lavishly spend borrowed money to buy votes.
This ideological overreach won’t be any more successful than the last one. …” — David Brooks
Folks — I’m with this guy 100%. I’m “sick up and fed” with the fringes of the two party system CARTEL dictating our lifestyles, our financial positions, our liberties and freedoms: the Democrats and Republicans either need to climb onboard of “Middle America Airlines” or grab their parachutes. President Barack Hussein Obama’s proposed Health Care Reform Obamacare’s causing a huge pillowfight between the Dems and Reps on The Hill (Gallup Poll)? Oh Really? How can that be when the G.O.P. moved sharply to the Left on that topic back in 2006, just before their Congressional trampling in the 2006 elections? Remember that one (GTL™ — January 22nd, 2006)? I do, but then again, I share some of the same physical and mental Blessings of an elephant. Sorry, I know that was a politically incorrect attempt at a joke but that’s what you’ll get around here when I’m on a roll. Just call me “Butter”.
Back to the point — the so-called “liberals” in the Democratic Party, I agree (with Mr. Brooks — and don’t forget the “big liberal bloggers”), are positioning themselves for a rout in 2012 if they fail to observe the facts that:
A) There really isn’t a DIME’S bit of difference between a Capitol Hill Democrat or Republican, generally speaking. –
B) History repeats itself. Beware. Ask former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum about how that one works out. –
Perhaps if our elected “leaders” PUBLIC SERVANTS would stop playing the “What’s Left And What’s Right?” game, they should concentrate more on playing the “What’s Right And What’s Wrong?” game and we might actually advance the agenda of the most important segment of America — what was ONCE known as “The American Middle Class”. Emphasis on the world “MIDDLE” on purpose.
***
Other interesting blogger opinions on this NYT Op-Ed — all around the political spectrum: Andrew Sullivan of The Daily Dish directs us toward his compatriot, Mark Ambinder — both of The Atlantic; Michelle Malkin has a “must-see” video of Congressman Russ Carnahan being put on the spot by one of his constituents on an Obamacare question; Kathy Kattenburg of The Moderate Voice reveals the fact that Mr. Brooks happens to be a Canadian neoconservative — regardless, it doesn’t make his NYT Op-Ed comments invalid; Dan Riehl of Riehl World View opines that this is not an Op-Ed, it’s “NEWS”; Doug J. of Balloon Juice points out the fall of the G.O.P. was not only due to the Southern “country boy” Republicans, it was also due to the Ivy League compatriots’ amongst them’s ignorance as well; Maha of The Mahablog says he couldn’t even bring himself to read a piece entitled “Liberal Suicide Watch”…
EDITOR’S NOTE: It appears I’m the ONLY one who took the time to dig up the G.O.P.’s pro-health care reform stance back in 2006? Why is that and why are they so against it suddenly now? The Republican Party is definitely earning their “Party Of ‘No’” Reputation if you’ll simply pay attention to them (if you can stomache it, that is)…
Wow I think this is the first evah post Ive completely agreed with the GTL.
I’ve been saying it. Obama might not be swell but its the congress that is steam rolling America into the poor house as they fund things of unimaginable costs that are not sustainable in the near term nor the future.
Death to America……Acorn speaks.
Be careful, Doomed — yer’ prolly on the “No Fly List” now for admitting that one, bro
Comments box prob solved! For the most part — have yer’ say!!!
At the risk of being ed-throned as Rightwing Deathsquad softball league commissioner, I agree in principle with what my good friend the commie says here. While I quite prefer my politicians to have well defined ideological positions, I also expect them to be able to compromise for the good of the Republic. For example, Ronald Reagan (stop to genuflect) and Tip O’Neil ( make sign to ward off evil) argued vehemently in public, there were yet able to compromise and pass legislation. While purists were not satisfied, the nation as whole benefited.
President Obama is in dangerous territory now. While he can count on some voting blocs; Blacks,Commies,and the certifiably insane, by themselves they are not enough to ensure re-election or even a continued majority in Congress. No, for that he needs Independents and “Squishy” Dempublicans, all of which are becoming increasingly dissatisfied. I suspect that this is in response to his Stimulus package. If a politician puts as many eggs in one basket as the President did, and makes claims of great disaster if not passed, and golden days ahead if passed, the body politic may just want to see how this turns out before trusting the President with ever larger challenges.
“The party is led by insular liberals from big cities and the coasts, who neither understand nor sympathize with moderates.”
JESUS BLOODY CHRIST!!! That is what I have been bitching about, and why I started easing out of the Dem. party 25 years ago! That is what a lot of us have been saying, and that is why the “Neo-cons” came into being – thinking liberals who saw the moral and ethical bankruptcy of the fringe left nanny-staters. But the Burton Machine in San Francisco, the Chicago Dem. Machine, and Tammany Hall insiders kept pushing farther and farther to the left, leaving a huge dissatisfied middle ground, somewhat socialy liberal electorate with nowhere to go.
I would love to go back to the Dems, but they have shown that they have no use for me except as a source of dontations and gruntwork. Firearms are eeee-vvviiillll. Free exercise if religion outside of a locked closet is eeee-vviiiilll (unless it is some animist or shamanist easter religion, then it is OK to parade it in public, have State supported classes in it, even try to make it the State religion). White men are eeee-vviiilll because some of us had ancestors who owned slaves (no mention of blacks who had ancestors who owned slaves, some even had a few white slaves – but who cares about a few micks?).
We the People are too stupid (not just ignorant, but stuipd) to figure out that eating 5 Chili’s Awesome Blossoms a day gives you your yearly fat intake in a week, so the business must post the nutritional info (even though you can easily find it on their website).
Can’t smack Little Johnny up-side the head for trying to stick a fire cracker in his friends ear, but he can get condoms from the middle school nurse, and they will arrange for his 12 y/o girlfriend to get an abortion without any parental notification.
I meant to say “how the MODERN Neo-cons came into being.”
This is a hilarious website. There this guy who calls himself a liberal repeating Republican myths about Michael Moore and big city liberals and other boogie men of the nutjob Right, and a bunch of commenters from the wingnut Right agreeing with him.
Wow, sorry, I thought for a second I was on a “liberal’s” website.
Read the below and take a smell test. GTL or Michelle Malkin? You decide:
“CARTEL dictating our lifestyles, our financial positions, our liberties and freedoms…”
Huh? Are we living on the same planet? I thought Bizarro World ended in January and as a rule the sky became blue again and grass became green. Do you REALLY think dirty hippie limousine latte drinking liberals are running the country? Are you SERIOUS? I don’t remember liberals calling me a traitor because I thought the Iraq War was against our national interest. I don’t remember liberals torturing people, illegally spying on American citizens, throwing away most of the Bill of Rights. I don’t remember liberals forcing any religion down my throat. I don’t remember liberals letting corporations run the country into the ground. Wake up, dude. Liberals have no real power in this country. They’re the only part of the political spectrum that has no part in government because they threaten the rich people’s wallets, and rich people and their house slaves can’t have that. Obama’s basically kicked the left wing of the Democratic Party in the nuts and told them to shove off. He’s catering to Republicans for God knows what reason and taking ownership, and even expanding, the worst of Bush’s economic and domestic policies, because he’d rather listen to the so-called “moderates” instead of doing what’s right–and what’s right, sometimes, means being truly liberal, not in name only, like some people.
@Joe Lovell: Don’t pretend you are a Democrat or ever were. Have the courage to be what you are: a right winger. Just say you’re a right winger. You talk like a wing nut and you know what they say about crap: If it smells like crap, looks crap, it’s crap. You’re a wing nut. Be proud of what you are. Don’t be a coward. And by the way, if you’re going to hate the Democratic Party, help yourself–God knows both parties are messed up–but at least try to do so with some honesty. Not with me, but with yourself. Your cute little myths about liberal policies in action may help give you your daily dose of mock rage so you can keep your panties perpetually in a knot, but don’t pretend you actually know what liberalism really is or what it stands for. And if you can’t even get off your lazy *** and make the least effort to understand your enemy, you really have no right mouthing off like a crybaby about things of which you’re ignorant.
Dude, switch to decaf.
Let’s see – I voted straight party Dem from 1976 to about 1984. Grew up in a blue collar, union, Dem. household. Split my ballot for the first time in ’84 because I didn’t like what the Dem. for the House was saying. But still voted Dem for Pres. until ’04. That kind of screams left leaning, doesn’t it, Cute Pup?
I’m pretty much a slightly right leaning libertarian (slighlty is about two clicks right, out of ten. Or Jeffersonian Liberal – the government small and weak with power vested in We the People, and to some extent the states.
By the way, Pup. Policy here is to attack the message, not the messanger. So maybe check your hatefilled, elitist attitude at the On switch, and start acting like a civilized person. And attacking Guns (teh guy who owns and runs this site) is really uncool.
Hi Joe Lovell, it’s the Cute Pup here, saying thanks for your elitist message!
Holy crap, you voted Democrat until Bush’s second term, and THEN you decided to vote Republican? [jaw hits floor, slaps forehead repeatedly, wags head, blinks, laughs out loud]
Now I’ve seen it all.
I look at government differently than you (obviously). The Republicans believe corporations are inherently good and should not be regulated, while people are inherently evil and should be heavily regulated. I believe the exact opposite. I believe corporations are by definition amoral and therefore should be regulated, while people are inherently good and therefore should be trusted with maximum liberty. That, plus the Republicans acting like they have a patent on patriotism and morality–when every day we see more and more clearly they have at best a mild understanding of the terms, and that’s being charitable–basically means I’ll never vote Republican in my life. The way they act, they’re going to keep losing the IQ-Above-100-Block. And oh yeah, their policies are a freaking nightmare for anybody who isn’t rich.
A small and weak government sounds appealing, but it is easy prey for big corporations, and they are the biggest problem in our democracy, not dirty hippies or even fascist nutjobs. If you really like libertarianism–again, sounds appealing, and you must be a Ron Paul fan–you would love the USA in the 1800s, where most people were basically poor, uneducated and squashed by big corporations.
Gotta run. The Two Minute Hate is on in a few minutes and I’ve got into my Ann Coulter mindset.
P.S. I expect if GTL runs a blog, he’s used to people disagreeing with him. Call it tough love. It’s like smacking Little Johnny.
Joe — thanks so much, my far-to-the-right friend but Bad Dog’s right — the comments policy allows for those who disagree with me to call me anything they want
As I attempt to sing “Kum-Bah-Yah” with all of my detractors, I’ve given them the SOLE right to attack myself and my authors on a personal basis — should this guy launch a personal attack against yourself or any of our other friends, OTOH, all bets are off 
Don’t worry, GTL. Joe can handle it. As a good Republican, he would NEVER play the victim. [snorts Pepsi through his nose]
After all, little Johnny needs a good smacking or he’ll just go on lighting firecrackers …
An honest question for you. Why do you complain because you think Obama is not living up to his liberal promises (which I agree with), but you complain because you think the Democrats are being held hostage by the liberal wing of the party (which suggests use of hard drugs)? The two don’t add up. Either you’re a liberal, and you support liberal policies, or you aren’t, and you don’t. What gives? Maybe the site should be called the Gun Toting Moderate?
Because I’m a glutton for cognitive dissonance, I’m compelled to ask:
BD, exactly how do you define “Liberal”?
You got that one right, Dog. Never the victim. Outraged citizen, yes. Fed up with the Democratic Machine capons, yes. Sick and tired of the fringe left controling the Dems, and chanting the mantra that men are evil, whites are evil, Christians are evil, and gun owners are evil, yes.
Disgusted with the pandering to the finge cause of the month, which invariably leads to legislation further restricting freedom of expression, freedom of choice, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion.
Irate at people like “I’m an important person” DiFi proclaiming to the world that because SHE is a politician, SHE is due special treatment. Or Babs, “Don’t call me Ma’am, I’m more important that that, I have a title” Boxer, or Side Swipe Migden who authored CAs hands free cell phone bill, then ploughed into the back of someone while driving under the influence of prescription drugs (DUI is DUI, prescription or not) and holding her cell phone to her ear. AND – getting off scot free, with We the Peo0ple of the State of California picking up the tab for repairs to her State vehicle because she was on State Buisness (80 miles off course, the meeting was in the South Bay, and she was over by Sacramento). And the rest of the fascists of the Dem. Machines who have the gall to tell us that we are too stupid to make our own decisions, so we must have an all powerful State to tell us what to eat, what to drive, what kind of lamp to use in a fixture, with whom we may associate, how to pray, and how & what to think.
So, yeah, when I heard a Dem candidate promise to take more money from me, to further restrict my civil rights, you bet I voted against him.
Oh, and about those EEEEE-vviilll corporations – first, most peoples retirement money is tied up in those corporations, usually spread around to several, so putting a hit on them to cut down on “windfall profits” directly impovreshes middle class people.
Second, you hear lots of talk about taxing the hell out of the oil industry for its 5% ot 7% “windfall” profit margin, but I have yet to hear about the movie industry , with its 15% to 25% (or higher), barely surviving on it, profit margin. Oh, and lots of places waive fees, and even kick in money to help the almost broke movie industry film in their cities and counties. Funny how a very left leaning industry like that can make huge profits, yet no one on the left screams about that, ya know?
Guns, I didn’t say that he couldn’t revile you (hell, I do it all the time after a few brews), but that it is an uncool thing to do. Unless it it over a tall cool one.
Joe, you are living proof that right wingers love to get upset about things that either aren’t happening or don’t matter. The only thing you didn’t bring up were FEMA death camps and Pelosi forcing the world to have an abortion. No more Glenn Beck for you! You’re going to have a brain rupture over propaganda, and that would be a waste of life. Oh no, Senator Boxer wants to be called Senator! The ewill libs want to take my guns and give them to homeless black people to force white women to have abortions! Boo! Boo hoo!
So glad people like you are speaking up for that oppressed minority called Christians–sorry, I had to laugh, I couldn’t say that with a straight face.
Bizarre you’re suddenly so concerned about freedom of expression, freedom of choice, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, but you vote Republican. The Republicans squash dissent, denied right of assembly, spied on Americans illegally, are constantly trying to establish a state religion, tortured people illegally, eliminated habeus corpus, etc. etc., and apparently this made you switch parties, as you started voting for the moron party in 2004.
Are you like most right wingers, whose motto is Party Before Country(tm)?
P.S. When you called me “Cute Pup” before, you weren’t hitting on me, were you? Just checking … You can never be sure with Republicans …
Chuck, a Liberal is a person who considers individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals. Liberty is the goal that makes social conservatives upset. Equality is the goal that makes economic conservatives (aka, rich people) upset. Liberal policies basically created a large, vibrant middle class in this country. Conservative policies created massive deficits, a war fought for no real reason, a shrinking middle class, massive flux of jobs to China, major erosion of my Constitutional rights, incompetent government, and the crash of the global financial system.
While noble goals, can the pursuit of liberty and equality go too far? Sure. If me exercising my rights infringes on yours, then there is an issue for the courts to decide (as Congress usually abdicates tough questions to the courts). That’s why there is gun control (I can’t own a nuclear weapon) and you can’t yell “fire” in a crowded movie house and a company can’t tell you its medicine cures cancer when it actually poisons and kills you. Further, if everybody were to be perfectly equal, we would have a government micromanaging the economy and individual wealth, which would be disastrous economically. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle, and as is common in a democracy, the best balance is guaranteed to satisfy nobody.
The struggle in finding that perfect middle is the point of having two parties and having a debate. My problem is we used to have two parties in this country–the liberal Democratic Party, and the conservative Republican Party–who would have a real debate. Now we have the conservative Democratic Party, and the crazy right-wing Republican Party. Fox News would love for you to believe otherwise. If you watch Fox News, you will think the most crazy PC college professor runs the world. It’s all a lie. It’s a hat trick so you don’t notice the hand on your wallet. That hand is the hand not only of the government but of big business and the rich. You are getting fleeced while you spit and rage about liberal stereotypes who represent, at best, 1% of the population.
What I would like is to stop framing the debate in stupid terms designed to degrade it, and actually have a real debate with two parties that are inclusive of the entire political spectrum, so I have a real choice.
Any problem with that?
@BD — loved that last PS and my bet is Mr. Lovell laughed his butt off on that one, too.
I do consider myself to be quite Liberal overall but there’s a difference to me between Liberals and LEFTISTS. I really DO wish the “liberal wing” would take over the Democratic Party. Were that to happen, I might actually join the party versus being proud to call myself an independent Liberal. If this helps you to understand my overall position, take the Political Compass Test and see how you compare — HINT — I’m about 5 clicks to the left economically and about 6 clicks South libertarian…
So basically, I find myself agreeing a LOT with guys like FandB, Chuck and Joe when they go on their rants against the Pelosi’s, Reid’s, etc., etc. Not because they’re Liberals but because I perceive them as being AUTHORITARIAN LEFTISTS — who, like their brethren on the economic right side of Authoritarianism are scheming to destroy the American Dream and are being quite successful at it to boot.
In a nutshell, I believe the 2-party CARTEL boils down to this:
* Republican Party wants to establish a POLICE state
* Democratic Party wants to establish a NANNY state
Either “utopia” is a nightmare and it amounts to the will of the Authoritarians being rammed down our throats, left or right, it doesn’t matter one BIT.
Hope this helps
I hadn’t taken the test in a few years, and I retook it, and discovered that I am now even more liberal than I used to be. I guess we can thank eight years of Bush for that. I’m actually almost exactly where you are, 5 left and 5 south. Should I buy a limousine?
Well put, GTL: I actually agree with everything you just said. I guess after eight years of a developing police state (that is still growing), a nanny state seems almost trivial to me. I’d prefer to have neither; but if I had to choose, a nanny state is the lesser of two evils. In fact, they scarcely compare. One wants me to use energy-saving light bulbs and wear seat belts. The other wants to be able to listen to my phone calls, torture me, throw me in jail forever and bankrupt my country in perpetual war. Tough choice, huh?
Unlike you, however, I do not appreciate the whiny rants of this site’s resident right wingers because they play into stereotypes and assign those stereotypes vast power in some weird left wing conspiracy, a symptom of way too much Fox News, that 24/7 training video for house slaves. If they want to battle straw men, they don’t need you, me or any living people to do it. They can do it all safely in their head, with the same effect.
Pup, when I read your first post on Guns’ blog, I got the picture of an angry,know it all, 19 to 25 year old. Just about the way I used to be. A few swats with a newspaper and you will be right as rain.
Oh, and you want to talk police state, look at what the Dems have done in California.
And tell me, what do you think of Abe Lincoln?
Guns, that same test puts me two clicks right, 4 clicks down. Today. Other times I’m anywhere from one click left to 4 clicks right. And 2 to 6 clicks down. Kind of depends on what has pissed me off just before I take it. But, in general, pretty damend centrist. I’m usually about 2 and 2. A touch of cross wind, and in a bit from my original zero.
There you go again, Joe, calling me Pup. Is that your version of foot tapping in a men’s room stall? Please don’t regard our disagreement as flirtation. It’s kind of creepy.
Actually, I’m a middle-aged white married w/kids middle class small business owner and debt-free homeowner, but you were close (not). If I sound pissed, it’s because I had to live through eight nightmarish years of whiny right wingers destroying the country and blaming it on everybody else. What’s your excuse? Maybe I upset you because I’m the one holding the newspaper.
Yes, I’d like to talk police state. I don’t live in California. Let’s talk the United States. Let’s talk about what happened to the Bill of Rights over the last eight years, and how you were okay with it despite being six clicks south on the Compass. If it’s one thing I admire about right wingers, it’s their consistency of principle (obvious sarcasm). Let’s see if you have any. Condemn what Bush and the Republicans did to the Bill of Rights, and maybe you’ll have a right to say anything about what the Democrats did to your beloved state.
Until then, have a nice day arguing with your shadow.
BoR is still funcitoning. Well, except for the thougth crime (hate crime)provisions that have been enacted. Oh, and the suppression of the free exercise clause. And maybe freedom of assembly (being told with whom we may associate). Lets not forget the attack on the 5th Amend. by the leftists on the USSC (Kelo). Ah! Free expression. That is being taken away. What else? Second Amendmen? Nah, who needs it, we have cops and the Army to keep us safe, right? So far, just about all the attacks on the BoR seem to come from the leftists.
I know you are going to get into the UAS PATRIOT Act. But I seem to remember that a whole shitpot full of Dems voted for that, like damn close to all of them. And, the dems controlled the upper house, and the gop had a slim majority in the lower house. So, don’t spout the crap about that, both parties were party to it. And I havn’t seen one sign of it being revoked by Nancy, Harry, or the former community organizer from Chicago. If it is so evil, why wasn’t it the first order of business?
Do I like it? Hell no. It was one of the worst bills ever to hit the floor of either house of Congress. It should never have been passed, or signed into law. I was pissed about it when it passed, and I’m still pissed about it. A few of the provisions – coordination among the intellegenc agencies for example were good things, but in general, it is an unconstituioal piece of emotional crap. NO bills based on emotion should ever see the light of day. They invariably are the worst things for our Republic (see the late, unlamented Assault Weapon Ban – based purely on emotion, ditto ofr “hate crime” laws).
So, you didn’t answer my question – what do you think of Abe Lincoln?
@Bad Dog — two things:
First — if Mr. Lovell has made a nickname for you (i.e., “pup”), he respects you enough to do so. I’ve been blogging on here with him since (I think?) 2004 and you are one of very FEW who’ve impressed him enough to “nickname”. In other words, I think he likes ya but probably not in one of those (LMFAO!!!!) “toe-tappin’” ways
Second — We’ve been here since early ’04 and (again), Joe’s been stirring up the pot here since very shortly after our inception. Unfortunately, our server crashed and literally, all of our earlier archives are completely lost and gone forever until September of 2006 when we were able to resume. Should you have been here back then, you’d have witnessed Mr. Lovell’s and even Chuck’s OUTRAGE at Bush Jr.’s signing of the Patriot Act and RealID into law… I remember some of them quite well
In other words, my friend — I’m glad to have you here, hopeful you’ll stay and become a part of this blog and some of these “Righties” who piss both of us off sometimes on economic issues would stand side-by-side with us, armed and dangerous when the Nanny/Police State comes knocking on our doors to tell us what the “King’s Instuctions For The Day” are for us. In other words, the one thing ALL of us have in common (with maybe the sole exception of FandB
is a strong respect for the Bill of Rights and our Creator-Granted Civil Liberties —
In other words — it’s mainly the economic arguments separating we GTL’ers — the “Southern” (libertarian-ish) political stuff, we largely sing “Kum-Bah-Ya” with, like yourself and Joe Lovell (even if you both don’t realize it yet) are doing from the eyes of an outsider in this so-called “argument” you are having over the usage of the terms “Nanny” and “Police” while describing a nation ALL of our Founders would be urging us to retaliate against…
Just my 2 cents
@Joe: The Bill of Rights has been eviscerated. Not just by Patriot Act I and II, but the Military Commissions Act, and secret spying (with Cheney defending it even though Bush was saying the gvt didn’t do it, while sending his people to pressure Ashcroft in a hospital bed to approve it), and torture (same), a no fly list that keeps growing with no end in sight, and a revival of COINTELPRO and other illegal methods of squashing dissent–almost all of them aimed at liberal advocacy groups (such as labeling antiwar groups, even Quakers, as “terrorist organizations”). Basically, in the United States, the government can declare you an enemy combatant, throw you in a secret jail without a lawyer, torture you, let you rot for as long as it likes, try you before a military court, and have you executed. Christ, man, the ATTORNEY GENERAL was actually arguing that habeus corpus is not explicitly granted to Americans in the Constitution–it only says you can’t take it away (the Founders considered it a given since it’d been around since Magna Carta)–and right wingers all over the country were applauding and smugly yelling “ditto!” This WAS ALL DONE BY A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS and a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION. Where’s your rage? You conservatives are supposed to be famous for taking responsibility for your actions, so try it sometime. And as for the Second Amendment, if you don’t like giving up assault weapons–which the crazies somehow interpret as the Gestapo bashing down your door with a big magnet sucking up every gun in the house–take it up with your local police department (although if it were up to me, you could have them, but then again, I’ve never had a family member killed by a stray bullet in a drug war). (But as for Hate Crime legislation, I don’t care for it; I appreciate the intent but it’s basically a thought crime bill.)
Did Democrats go along with some of this? Hell, yeah. First, like all Congresspeople, most of them are cowards and just as Republican Congressmen are particularly robotic and goose stepping for whatever big strong man they’re trying to get elected and build a cult around, Democratic Congressmen are particularly spineless and short sighted. Second, I seem to recall the right wingers were calling anybody a traitor who didn’t pray daily for our Commander in Chief the National Guard deserter to win our wars domestic and foreign, and the sheeple responded by slamming the Democrats in elections. But now they’re in charge and why don’t they revoke it? Good question! Probably because they don’t want to be labeled traitors and lose another election, so nice going, there. Obama, in fact, is trying to expand Bush’s police state, which makes me pissed. I’ll of course vote Democrat in the next election (What choice do I have? President Palin? Are you nuts?), but I’ll be holding my nose doing it.
(LMAO again at your community organizer reference: Boy, do you make it sound scary: Cue the organ. There’s one standing behind you, Joe. Boo! Oh no, he wants to petition the local government to prevent a hazardous waste incinerator from being built next to your kids’ school! [gasps for air] Or, or, or, or [with Glenn Beck tears] he wants you to sign a petition to pressure a company to clean up a nearby river it polluted so people can go fishing there again. [cries out to Heaven for divine aid] Oh Lord, please save us from people trying to protect their communities and improve their quality of life! They live in a COMMUNITY and they are ORGANIZERS!)
As for Abe Lincoln, say what you want to say, I’m listening…
@GTL: Joe can call me anything he wants. Sticks and stones, and all that. I was just messing with him cuz, you know, most Republicans are perverts. I’m actually enjoying the conversation with him for the most part, or I wouldn’t be continuing it.
I appreciate what you’re saying otherwise but we do not disagree only on economic issues. The Right wants a nanny state too–right down to telling you what to do in your bedroom–and it’s scarier than energy-saving light bulbs and hate crime laws. Almost as scary as the police state they’ve been building and that our new “Democratic” president is now busy expanding. I don’t right wingers should be given an inch until they give one first, maybe two. Until then, nada.
Show me a real conservative, with consistent, genuine principle, though, and I’ll shake his hand immediately and have a great, reasoned debate, and maybe I’ll even learn something. I just can’t find one. Because a real conservative would have found eight years of Bush the worst thing that ever happened to this country, and for eight years we’ve seen almost every Republican excuse the horrorshow that was the Bush Administration. (Scratch that, Ron Paul would count. I don’t agree with him about many things, but I respect the guy, and that’s critical. God, I even respect Pat Buchanan for the same reason. You know where they stand. They put principle before Party.)
I tagged you as “Pup” because I percieved you, as I said, as a young, angry, full of piss and vinegar, know it all, intent on showing us all the error of our ways. About like I was at 19. So far, you havn’t done much to sway me from that view, even though you wrote that you are middle aged. And, no, I’ll not fullfil your strange sexual attraction for me. I may live near San Francisco, but not THAT near.
I will say that my perception is coloured by the actions of the Dems in CA. Trying to make feng shui the state religion while removing almost microscopic crosses from civic and county seals. Setting up spirit posts in public parks and at the same time trying to remove crosses from cemetaries. Breying that they are important people and so need guns, while passing law after law restricting honest citizens from owning firearms. And bascially, the push for total state control over every aspect of our daily lives. It doesnt take a chainsaw to fell an oak. Enough cuts with a pocket knife will fell it, it will just take more time. And if you have hundreds of capons hacking away with their knives, it really won’t take all that long.
Guns, I’ll open up with case at about 2000 yards, keep it up hot and heavy until I have to spike the gun. With my regular crew, I can sustain about 5 rounds every two minutes. Then, when they get that close, it is fix bayonet, independent fire at will with small arms until we get over run.
It’s funny, Joe, because my image of you is of an overweight, low-IQ, alcoholic, homophobic (but secretly gay) red stater with one finger perpetually in his nose, whose sole source of news is Fox News, hates everybody smarter than him, and trolls comments pages to share his dittos and try to pick up 19-year-old men (which explains your fantasy about me being 19). You haven’t really done anything to sway me from that view either.
Seriously, if we can’t take each other at face value on what we say about ourselves, there’s no point in continuing. Have a nice day.