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GTL™ Sunday Guest Columnist: Author And Moderately-Right-Of-Center Political Pundit, Christopher L. Doster Uses His Golf Expertise To Cleverly Attack Liberal Economic Policies Via Analogy…
“Lesson for a Liberal”
My day job requires me to teach on a regular basis. Not the kind of teaching you may assume, in a classroom with “minds full of mush”, but at an emerald outdoor adult playground; a golf course. With my marketing career on hold, I have been pursuing another of my passions for some time. Guess you can call it a mid-life career change, or crisis if you will, what with the market in complete disarray.
I was introduced to the great game of golf during my stint in the corporate medical device sales industry. Seemed all the boys (and some of the girls) found it a great way to conduct business with customers. As well, it’s not a bad way to “lose yourself” for a few hours what with health care and our world teetering on the edge of demise.
The lesson I learned from those veterans in the field, the “road warriors”, was that time in that environment exposes people, it “strips them naked”, quoting one golf guru. If you’ve never played the game, believe me, I have seen prominent surgeons and industry leaders crumble under the pressure of a 4 foot putt, or lose all confidence after a shank.
The “child” in all of us is often on full display during a round on the links; from gleeful joy to the temper tantrums of a 5 year old all grown up. God loves to see his children play, but throwing clubs and cursing to high heavens over a double bogey is probably not what He (or She) had in mind…
Golf is ultimately a game for “thinkers”…that damn ball just sits there waiting, as you think, doubt, think again, and then act, hopefully. Other than the “handicap” golf is for individuals, not so much for the role player looking to hide behind a team. Again, it “exposes you”. No “bailouts” if you hit it out of bounds, no “stimulus” if you need more distance to carry the water. It’s you and the course with no help allowed, and penalties if you cheat. If fact, its one of the only games known to man that requires you to call penalties on yourself. I sure would love to play a round with Timothy Geithner, our illustrious Secretary of the Treasury. Wonder if he counts all his strokes correctly, or just “forgets” what he lays on the green, so he just lies and hopes no one is watching (WSJ)?
I’ve read that President Clinton was notorious for “cheating” at golf. “Mulligans” off the tee and improving his “lie” was as common as his finger waggle or lip bite. You know, breaking the rules as often as he broke promises. As for our latest political Golfer In Chief, I understand he is more into bouncing the round ball off the hardwood, as he bounces checks for every social program under the sun. Ironically, when he does “tee it up”, (as he did last Fathers Day, leaving the family behind at the “White” House) (CBSNews), he lines up on the wrong side of the ball…he’s a “lefty”….
Last week I gave a golf lesson to a Very liberal woman from the NYC area. The resort where I work and teach caters to wealthy Northeasterners, so I get quite a view, aside from the scenic Adirondack Mountains and the Queen of lakes, Lake George. At one point during the lesson, she commented on the economy and how she looks forward to “Obama turning things around”. While she sliced and topped shot after shot, ignoring my advice to “stay centered over the ball”, she giggled like a little girl after every swing. As much as I wanted to help her, she was just having fun, on vacation. Yet she was just happy to have me there watching, giving her my full attention, lost in her own world…Oblivious…
With hotel occupancy way down, green fees off, and tourism crawling through the summer, she commented on how “quiet it is around here this year”. Her family had no trouble booking tee times or getting dinner reservations, “this is great” was her assessment. Traffic was much more “manageable” during their trek up the Northway from the big Apple. “Isn’t this great, other than all the rain this season”, as she put her custom fit clubs in her designer golf bag, handing me a $5 tip for an hour lesson. She concluded with a comment that revealed her naïve view of America, business, and how sheltered a life she leads. I had made reference to the “Obama economy” in response to her observations. Insulated in her high rise condo in Manhattan, an artificial environment of concrete and taxis, she responded, “The greedy corporations that created this mess will pay for what they did, don’t worry Chris, our President will take care of us”…unquote.
Right, the “greedy corporations” that send their executives and sales forces to our hotel for meetings and golf outings, which pay for green fees, lessons, tips, reservations, and “spreads the wealth around”. Now, they sit idle, paralyzed to act, like a golfer frozen over the ball, unsure of what will happen if they pull the trigger. This liberal woman was stuck in a child like state, oblivious to what creates “stimulus” in the real world. Quoting Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr, MD, author of “The liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness” :
“Under the creed of modern liberalism, the individual citizen is not called to maturity but is instead invited to begin a second childhood. Like the child at play, he is given, or at least promised, ultimate economic, social and political security without having to assume responsibility for himself. The liberal agenda requires him to remain in an artificial environment–the daycare program of the grandiose state–where he need not become an adult, take responsibility for his own welfare, nor cooperate with others to achieve what the state will give him for nothing.”
— CLD
ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
Christopher L. Doster is a native of Glens Falls, NY. Graduating from the University of South Alabama, he began a career in the medical device industry in 1989. Since 1999, Chris has been promoting, marketing, and developing aesthetic products in the cosmetic/skin care sector. Creating and branding a nationally distributed topical scar product, he has authored several professional trade journal articles (Click on the “Posts” Tab), and the soon to be released book, “MD Skin Secrets – A natural discovery“. A political pundit enthusiast, Chris has also written two books yet to be released, “American Idleness – apathy in politics“, and “Pipe Dreams – The empire state goes up in smoke“. You can also view more of Mr. Doster’s exclusive GTL™ Sunday Columns by clicking HERE.
Agree? Disagree? Have Something To Add? Please Show Your Appreciation To Mr. Doster For Taking The Time To Author This Guest Column In The Comments Section Below
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Thanks again, Mr. Doster. Hopefully this one’ll provoke the level of conversation your last one did
Blog ON, Sir, and thanks for being a part of the team
Chris
I’m right there with you bro. The “Greedy Corporations” line is without a doubt the lamest scapegoat in the Leftist herd. For the love of Friedman, what exactly do they think a corporation is? Apparently in the mysticism that the Left calls economics, corporations consist of about a dozen or so racist gazillionaires, backed up by a shadow army of ruthless mercenaries. The last part is the best because that number may be expanded or contracted to fit every deranged conspiracy theory from chemicals on apples to fixing oil prices. When it comes to corporations, Leftists use whatever the opposite of Occam’s Razor would be. Instead of seeing a business that employs lots of people and strives to make a profit doing so, they see unadulterated evil. I always find it strange how the Left thinks making a buttload of money is okay, as long as that money was coerced out of someone’s pocket. Once that transfer of funds becomes voluntary, it somehow becomes tainted.
Just as it is naive for the Left to believe Obama will “take care of us”, we see the mirrored reflection of the Right’s similarly misplaced belief in warrantless surveillance by an unrestrained national security state. Our freedoms are protected by enforcement of the Bill of Rights, not by the false promise of hope by Obama, and not by the false promise of safety by Bush/Cheney rogue agencies.
There is a valid argument that the US and the world would be just as safe, if not safer, without an NSA or CIA. Unfortunately these agencies deny us the very facts we need to debate the issue.
And yes, greed exists in corporations. They serve their bottom line. Businesses who grew in the US and were nurtured by American workers, would betray those employees in a heartbeat and send those jobs overseas. Not all of them, but too many have done just that. My wife even had to train her Indian replacement. It is not in the nature of Big Business to be benevolent and merciful.
People need to accept responsibility for their actions, and they need to understand the effects of their actions on others, including the effects on corporations. Corporations respond to the demand from their customers. If their customers demand lower prices for goods and services than they are able to achieve in the U.S., then there is pressure from their customers to move overseas to lower their costs.
Just as businesses would “betray” the “American workers” who “nurtured” them, the very same American workers would betray the businesses they worked for in a heartbeat if they could buy down the street and save half a buck.
And the American worker is also not without responsibility in this matter. Every year, Workers demand higher and higher pay and benefits (even though their work usually does not improve much, if at all, from year to year). The workers threaten to destroy the business if they don’t get what they want. So when it reaches the point where sales decline due to higher prices forced by higher wages, businesses have to choose between off-shoring, out-sourcing, raising prices, or shutting their doors.
When customers demand lower prices, and workers demand higher wages, the business is left with too few options.
Now this is where the liberals jump in and scream that the people running the companies get paid too much, they should cut their own pay. It is a fundamental difference between the free market capitalism that built this great nation, and the socialism that is destroying it. The problem is, the liberals can’t see that (1) the big bad CEO doesn’t earn enough to make a difference in the above scenario, even if his pay were cut to zero it would have a marginal effect at best; and (2) if companies don’t pay enough to attract the talent needed to run the company, it will fail anyway.
If the American workers, who expect to get paid more and more every year, were to develop new ways to do things, better, faster, cheaper ways to produce. And if they were to do it consistently year after year, there would be several differences between the way things are now and the way they could be. America would not have a trade deficit – as long as our quality and productivity improve year after year after year, our goods and services would be the lowest priced and the highest quality in the world. Not only would Americans only want to buy American made goods, the rest of the world would want American made goods. Our unemployment rate would be nil. Our tax rates would be lower. Everyone would be insured through their employers, since profits are high and everyone is working. And on and on…
So I still believe that the American worker CAN make a difference, and should strive every day to make that difference.
The movement away from accepting personal responsibility for your own actions, and toward expecting more and more from the government, has led to the deadly spiral that we are in now.
Remember, the big scary evil “corporations” don’t exist in a void, and they don’t run themselves. They are run by people, EVERY SINGLE ONE of whom is just trying to make the best living they can for themselves and for their families. The people running the corporations are ALSO American Workers.
F&B
Sure buddy, that’s just like you. Say the same thing I did but make more sense.
I will object however, to your use of the term “liberal” That is extremely inaccurate to describe the modern American Left. “Liberal” implies an open and tolerant mind. There is not a single person capable of rational thought that would apply that criteria to the American Left as we know it, as even a casual perusal of DU or our Daily Kos would evidence.
Chis- Just a beautiful article, funny, insightful, even eloquently worded. I’ll leave my snarky rebuttals of other’s comments for later.
Good one Chuck. I admit I wrote about the same thing you did, but I just wanted to add the angle of responsibility. Who is responsible for moving business overseas = the consumer, conversely, who can correct the problem = the consumer.
F and B- I’m such a dope, all this time reading your posts I always though you just had an odd name that rhymed with Bambi. Then I saw Chris split it with a “&” , now I see the light.
Dave W. (I catch on so fast!)- The government overstepping the line with U.S. Citizens is indeed a serious issue and a big problem that is compounded by technology. However, I dare say the vast majority of spying is much more innocuous and safe from abuse than you may realize. Back in the old days, an overseas spy might befriend and pay a janitor to get the trash out of some dictator’s office to get a sense what was going on. Now, with so much information being created and stored electronically, agencies use different methods of gaining information. As powerful as the tools are to gather information, the agencies struggle with the problem of netting “dolphine with the tuna”. And when it comes to phone calls, e-mails,texting and such, there are millions of worthless “dolphine” information for the few tuna they are after. It is hard not pull in sometimes unauthorized information on U.S. citizens, but my opinion is that it is a very rare day when one of those “Alphabet” agencies actually wants to have infomation on a U.S. citizen that it wasn’t authorized to have.
“Good one Chuck. I admit I wrote about the same thing you did, but I just wanted to add the angle of responsibility.”
Of course. There can be only one abusive drunken parent in this day care, and that job’s MINE. MINE you hear! Someone’s got to be responsible around here and I’ll be damned if that’s me.
What a lovely world you live in – where women are always little girls and spreading the wealth is a big tip. Golf is not a “thinkers” game – it’s a rich man’s game and trickle down is not a valid economic theory anymore than hiking the Appalachian Trail is an outdoor activity. You speak of penalties for cheating and yet these same business leaders that you defend are the same criminals that have gutted our economy, taken the money overseas and come begging Uncle Sam for handouts.
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Does this sound like more of that Liberal thinking? It is. It’s that lefty Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence.
Read again, to secure these rights, governments are instituted to protect us from the mood swings of kings, the blind passion of the mob and the greed of the business man.
Get off the green. The world looks different out here.
If Jefferson were to addrss the DNC today, he would be tarred and feathered, ridden out of town on a rail, then stoned. NONE of the pet programs so dear to the left fit into his idea of an extremely limited, barely functional, and almost powerless federal government.
I see…with the deepest affliction, the rapid strides with which the federal branch of our government is advancing towards the usurpation of all the rights reserved to the States, and the consolidation in itself of all powers, foreign and domestic…aided by a little sophistry on the words ‘general welfare,’ a right to do, not only the acts to effect that, which are specifically enumerated and permitted, but whatsoever they shall think, or pretend will be for the general welfare.
JEFFERSON, THOMAS, Letter to W. B. Giles, 1825
I love quotes from Jefferson. what document was his quote about the “greed of the business man” in? Ok, so maybe it is an extrapolation. Do people need a government to protect us from rich greedy people? Yes! That is why we have labor laws. That is why we have anti-discrimination laws and anti-trust laws. Do those laws stop all abuse? I’m sure they don’t. But who in this country is forced to work for a particular employer? If you think Bank of America is evil (and I do) you can work for someone else, you can boycott their products and services. Crime laws don’t stop all crime either. But if a burglar breaks into a rich person’s house and steals from that person, there are laws to punish the theif if that theif gets caught. The problem with our government is they can steal as much as they want, from the rich, the poor, everybody, and give what they steal to whomever they want.
FandB,
Personally, and like many other Americans who may still have an income, I will always spend a little more on products made in the US over an import. That is, if I even have the choice.
I must say I’ve never heard that the reason for the horrific job losses in the US is the irresponsibility of workers looking for lower prices and their greed for better wages. But it’s OK, I guess, for the company and its bosses to do what it takes to achieve those same things. Executive and CEO pay has risen exponentially, often regardless of performance, while economic stagnation and depression close in on most Americans.
I’d like to see someone explain that to the unemployed. I suppose that’s why there’s Fox News, eh, F and B? F and B… Hmm, why does that ring a bell? Listening to the shrill cries of the Right, you’d think the middle class was expanding out of control and lynching the rich, instead of shrinking into a distant memory. An informed middle class is exactly what the ruling political and corporate elite want to suppress.
And say, don’t those trade deficits and job losses have something to do with corporate friendly “Free Trade Agreements”?
I am also surprised to learn that corporations are run by people who, unlike those selfish laborers, are free from the influence of greed; even the Wall Street banksters, I suppose.
Well, that’s “Free Market Capitalism” for you. It’s a good thing they have reverse socialism to bail them out. We all work for them now. That is so much better than that evil kind of socialism that uses tax dollars to provide public services like police and fire departments and infrastructure. If someone doesn’t have the sense of personal responsibility to put out his house fire, or catch the arsonist burglar who broke into his house before he started the fire, then he gets what he deserves, right?
You know what else liberals can’t see? They can’t see “free trade” and “free markets”. They see a revolving door relationship between politicians and corporate lobbyists. They see two thirds of corporations paying no income taxes. They see Big Business filling the campaign funds of both parties. They see corporatocracy. They see the golden rule where those with the gold make the rules.
You’re right FandB, American workers can make a difference. As long as they shut up, accept a lower standard of living, give up on health care, and gratefully serve their corporate masters for minimum wage.
Mike,
Remember this line? “Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires — a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way…” – G. W. B. 4-20-04
We liberals, and conservatives who understand the Fourth Amendment, call that a lie.
It may well be that “the vast majority of spying is much more innocuous and safe from abuse,” but the fact remains it has been, and is done, without Constitutional accountability and oversight. Journalists were specifically targeted and had their phones and email wiretapped. At least that was the case with James Risen of the New York Times. Perhaps he was being punished for reporting illegal surveillance by the Bush Administration. (There goes that pesky First Amendment as well.) Just how much warrantless spying on innocent Americans for no probable cause is acceptable? And just who do you trust with that power?
Do you trust the likes of General Michael Hayden? Maybe you remember he was the former NSA director who was rewarded with a new job as CIA boss by Bush/Cheney.
And do you remember Hayden being questioned by reporter Jonathan Landay in January of 2006?
Landay of Knight Ridder began his question by stating that “the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to be able to do a search that does not violate an American’s right against unlawful searches and seizures.” Hayden then interjected: “Actually, the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure. That’s what it says.”
Landay politely corrected him, saying, “But the measure is ‘probable cause,’ I believe.” But Hayden insisted: “The amendment says ‘unreasonable search and seizure.’” When Landay continued, “But does it not say probable–” he was interrupted by Hayden, who said, “No…. The amendment says ‘unreasonable search and seizure.’”
Astoundingly, Hayden then said, “Just to be very clear, believe me. If there’s any Amendment to the Constitution that the employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it’s the fourth. And it is the reasonableness standard that is in the Amendment.”
So, here it is:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
This leaves me with some questions.
Why would our corporate media allow such ignorance of our rights by powerful leaders go unreported? Could it be their tight relationship with the telecom industry that was soon granted immunity for their part in the illegal surveillance? Why do they attack a constitutionally protected free press as the dreaded “liberal media” and embrace unconstitutional abuse of power by radical dishonest Right Wing conservatives?
And one more question. Except for the Second Amendment, why do Right Wing conservatives dismiss and scorn the Bill of Rights?
Some people seem to think the U.S.A. is like India where there is no bankruptcy and a debt not paid in a person’s lifetime is passed on to the children. There is no debtor’s prison in this country. We are a wealthy country where even the “poor” live far better than “average” citizens in quite a number of other countries. But people cry if they have difficulty paying for cell phone, premium channels, and chicken nuggets. I say, get a bag of rice, it is a lot cheaper than chicken nuggets. Oh, and to throw my non-partisan hat on for a few seconds; yes the republican led administration is partly responsible for our current economic downturn but the current democrat led policies are ensuring we stay down for some time. So stock up, it is going to be awhile before the good times roll around again.
Well well boys, play nice. Jefferson, like Nostrodamas, can be quoted to say anything you like. Hey that’s true of the Bible too.
Anyway – isn’t it kind hard to defend lazy-unfair capitalizm from the golf course? Or is that where are the really important people conduct business.
See, I choose a different sport. Little Bush was a cheerleader. Never got in the game himself. Just cheered on others as they went. But of course he had to use daddy Bush’s bucks to get in the game.
I like the Basketball player. Golf is for rich old men who can’t run anymore and bowling is for poor old men who can’t run anymore.
Me…I fish.
Are the extrodinary wealthy not greedy? I never said that, but let me break it down for those who don’t understand the difference between the rich getting richer and the government making everyone broke. Pretend you have some super painter named Paula Picasso 50 dollars worth of material that she is able to sell to a rich greedy basspro for 1 million dollars. This is called “Wealth Creation”. The basspro is down a million in cash but total net value is the same as the pro is up a million dollar painting. Now Paula can horde as much as she wants or she can spend it and spread the wealth. When the government takes 1 million from basspro, even if it puts it in the hands of the oh so need AIG executives, basspro is now down 1 million, no wealth has been created. Now multiply that 1 million enough times to get to the trillion dollar stimulus bill and what have you got: still no wealth creation, just redistribution with a lot of distribution falling into the hands of political supporters.
You may be “Stillonlline”, but youre not “on time” with modern day reality….the most successfull golfer in the world came from a middle class BLACK family, oh by the way, of military background. Ever heard of Tiger Woods Maam….? Your thinking is of the 1970′s, where “golf” was stereotyped as a “rich fat cats game”….The majority of golfers today make under $250,000 a year (so guess they are safe from new taxes, right Mr. Obama and Obamamanics), are women, juniors, and play at municipal courses. Oh yea, Presidents and members of congress belong to “country clubs” of course, and thats OK….”get off the greens and get in the real world”…you mean like American Idol and socialized medicine….Why dont you “get off the Kool aid” and get a life….
Dave Dubya: ” I will always spend a little more on products made in the US over an import” — not enough people are willing and then actually follow through and do it. That’s a large part of the problem.
“I’ve never heard that the reason for the horrific job losses in the US is the irresponsibility of workers looking for lower prices and their greed for better wages” — I realize it is a bitter pill, and not very PC, but in order to solve a problem, you have to attack the root cause, not the symptoms.
Businesses ONLY sell what people buy. The buyer is ALWAYS in control, not the seller.
Most people have trouble understanding this concept. They are used to being controlled by government and have forgotten that government should not be the one in control.
Your next paragraph, Dave Dubya (hmmm…why does that sound familiar), is just a feeble attempt to bash the right and is completely meaningless, especially in terms of fosteriing a productive discussion on the serious, but solvable, issues that the U.S. now faces.
All of your questions were answered in my first post. All of the corporate actions you disagree with are brought about through the actions of businesses trying to satisfy the needs/desires of consumers. It isn’t the other way around as liberals would like you to believe. If everyone took responsibility for their actions, stopped buying foreign made products, demanded U.S. made products, etc., all these things would change.
“Two thirds of corporations paying no income taxes” is SHEER FABRICATION on your part Dubya. Making up statistics is no way to make meaningful contributions to improving the situation in the U.S.
Your comment regarding what American workers are capable of is about as pessimistic as you can get. It just shows how deeply ingrained the lack of understanding goes.
GTL,
I must thank you for this opportunity to engage in friendly discourse and debate. It’s a good thing to see two sides presented without shouting and interruption.
FandB,
I see you prefer a black and white world of absolutes. “Businesses ONLY sell what people buy. The buyer is ALWAYS in control, not the seller.” While that may provide some comfort to a right wing belief system, it does little to aid in one’s grasp of realty. The minimum wage employee who must spend the bulk of his paycheck on gas to get to his job is not in control. The same worker is also mandated to buy insurance for that car. That is not in his control.
My comments are not so much “a feeble attempt to bash the right”, but simply my effort to bash what is wrong. (IMHO, that is.) I happen to agree with conservatives who support the right to firearm ownership, but it’s sensible to regulate and to deny that right to psychotics and criminals. And I agree with them that abortion is a horrible thing. However I do feel it is not up to a man, or the government, or some church to make what is clearly the woman’s personal painful decision..
True liberalism dwells in thoughtful, fair-minded people who yearn for a government that works for the public good. You may be surprised to learn most folks embrace both liberal and conservative ideas.
Both progressive and conservative interests in our Constitutional directives to “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty” are undermined by corporate agendas. Liberals were called traitors when they questioned the motives of war profiteers/mongers Cheney and Rumsfeld. The Right accused us of “hating America” by objecting to Bush’s illegal, corporate telecom-assisted domestic spying. Those same voices are now howling about some foreign born socialist who wants to destroy capitalism while palling around with a terrorist. Give me a break.
Liberalism TM exists primarily in the fevered fantasies of right wing propagandists. It is not in the corporate-bought government of the United States.
My pessimism is grounded in the historical facts from Reagan’s “trickle down” myth to Bush/Cheney’s Enron/Halliburton style corporatism. Corporatism, masked as conservatism, has been the guiding force in US Government policy for 30 years now
I will not go in circles with you over these issues. I will, however, assert myself when accused of dishonesty. (“Two thirds of corporations paying no income taxes” is SHEER FABRICATION…) If you want sheer fabrication, I suggest tuning in to Rush Limbaugh, Bill O Reilly, Sean Hannity and their countless legions who can only make their points by outrageous comments and sheer fabrication. Feel free to fact check those folks if you have the curiosity that is obviously lacking in their listeners.
My “fabrication” is from the General Accounting Office report mentioned by many sources, excluding Fox News, of course. I have included a couple for you. I accept your apology.
—
Christian Science Monitor April 19, 2004
The April 2 release of a General Accounting Office report on corporate taxes could hardly have been better timed to get press attention. Just as millions of Americans were filling out their federal 2003 tax forms to beat the April 15 deadline, the GAO study indicated that most corporations owed no taxes from 1996 to 2000, a boom period for corporate profits.
Those untaxed corporations earned $3.5 trillion of revenues.
—
SF Chronicle Wednesday, August 13, 2008
When the taxman cometh, most corporations wave him on by, according to a government study released on Tuesday.
About two-thirds of U.S. companies and foreign firms doing business in this country paid no federal income taxes from 1998 to 2005, according to a study by the Government Accountability Office. Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., called the report “a shocking indictment of the current tax system.”
To be sure, many of the nonpayers were small or new companies that probably made no money. But the report said that about a quarter of large corporations – ones that had more than $250 million in assets or $50 million in gross receipts – paid no taxes. In 2005, for instance, 3,565 large U.S. companies and 998 large foreign-owned companies operating here did not pay any income taxes.
Dave Dubya — that’s why we’re here! And thank YOU for being a co-blogger here — I really enjoy your insight
Blog ON!
Gone fishing….
Dave said
” In 2005, for instance, 3,565 large U.S. companies and 998 large foreign-owned companies operating here did not pay any income taxes.”
As an part owner of a “C” corporation, that tells me they did their job. A well run corporation should pay no tax. The profits should be “trickled down” to the employees, or expensed on qualifying assets. Just as the GOVERNMENT intended when it wrote the rules. It is a sign of a poorly run or massively ponderous corporation that pays taxes.
“The minimum wage employee who must spend the bulk of his paycheck on gas” — as I said, we need to get to the root cause of the problem. Why is this employee only earning minimum wage? Trying to solve the wrong problem does not bring us closer to a solution that is equitable for all.
“mandated to buy insurance for that car” — This varies from state to state. Who is responsible for this nanny-state law? (Hint: It usually falls under the same political discussion as ‘Affordable Health Care’)
“woman’s personal painful decision” — why is the decision painful? Because every woman who has an abortion knows that she is killing her own child. That’s why.
Why do liberals not have empathy for the baby that is being executed, often through excruciatingly painful and Torturous “procedures.” Who is protecting their rights?
Liberals are OK with torturing babies to death, but if we waterboard a murderer we should be hanged for Treason. Hmmmm…. Something’s not quite right in the liberal camp.
“True liberalism dwells in thoughtful, fair-minded people who yearn for a government that works for the public good.” — That sounds like conservatism to me.
“undermined by corporate agendas” — They are also undermined by the left wing socialist agendas.
Regarding the whole “war profiteer” scenario you brought up, have you looked at what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan lately? Yeah, looks like Bush and Cheney were right. Again.
“I will not go in circles with you over these issues” — Heh, I don’t blame you.
Dude. Apology not tendered. Don’t make so many assumptions.
You back-pedaled on that fallacy yourself, even after giving it a decidedly leftist spin.
It is funny how the lefties repeatedly single out three or four conservative talk show hosts and then throw out their little snipes, like ‘fact check them’. Maybe the lefties who believe the venom spewed by the New York Times, MSNBC, most of the other MSM outlets, CNN, etc. should do a little Fact-Checking themselves rather than believing everything uttered by The Party of Hate and the new official State-Run Media.
(Hint: When a company doesn’t pay income taxes, it usually means the company did not make any money. Just as Joe Private Citizen doesn’t pay any income taxes if he has no taxable income.)
Why do the lefties always try to spin it to look like the companies made tons of money and paid no taxes.
(Another Hint: People (and corporations) don’t pay taxes on assets, gross receipts, or revenue. They pay taxes on Net Income, i.e. ‘Taxable’ income)
Dang, Chuck, you’re giving away all the secrets
Sorry Buddy, but sometimes the kids get me soooo worked up.
Hi, FandB,
I am delighted to see you are agreeable to some of my points, just as I agree with some conservative views. See, we can make progress. Even though such agreements may be similar to Sarah Palin and a geologist agreeing that the Earth is old; old, as in six thousand years to Sarah, and old as in billions of years to the geologist.
What, no apology? I guess if you’re never wrong you never need to apologize. (Hint: I originally said “income taxes”. You copied and pasted that, remember? Thanks for clarifying, though.) In good faith I provided the documented source of my corporate tax point and you rejected it with your un-documentable claim of fallacy. I understand. Righties do tend to confuse journalism with liberalism, and right wing ideology with fact.
Speaking of journalism, since Fox “news” is not journalism, and thus also never wrong, I agree with your suggestion to fact check the rest of the corporate-owned media. I remember when the New York Times parroted the Bush Cheney lies about Saddam’s “nukular” weapons, sinister aluminum tubes, and scary mushroom clouds. I also remember the Times telling us, on Bush’s behalf, about Saddam training al-Qaeda in chemical and biological weapons. (After no evidence was found to support their propaganda, Cheney wanted to waterboard Iraqis to get them to “confess” to these falsehoods.)
Yes, the corporate media do tend to drink that right wing kool-aid, don’t they? And since media ownership has not changed since back in 2002 and 2003 when they were whipping up war fever, your “state run media” description has a certain ring of truth to it. Why didn’t you and Rush tell us back then that the media was state run? Oh, maybe it’s because progressives were making similar accusations.
And I’m with you buddy, I never blindly believe anything uttered by the Party of Hate, or democrats either, for that matter.
I won’t pick at any of the other unsubstantiated assertions you made. Instead I’ll just respond to a few of your questions, and then I’ll shut up like a good little liberal and let you have the last word.
“Why is this employee only earning minimum wage?”
He’s getting minimum wage because the company will not pay him more. The Right hates the minimum wage and thinks it’s too generous, remember?
“…mandated to buy insurance for that car” — This varies from state to state. Who is responsible for this nanny-state law?”
That would be the insurance companies, not those socialists.
“Have you looked at what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan lately? “
Yes, I have. Obama is escalating the war is Afghanistan. That would be a “surge” to you folks on the Right. And like the escalation in Iraq, many more of our troops will have their lives sacrificed to a political/corporate agenda. Many more will suffer long term disabilities and PTSD. These vets will need to be treated by government run health care systems supported by our tax dollars, right? You do support our troops, and would gladly contribute your tax money for their care and rehabilitation, wouldn’t you? I would hope you’d not want to cast them into the streets and say “It was your own irresponsibility that got you wounded. You’re on your own.”
I see the Iraqis STILL want us out of their country and celebrated the day our military committed to remain on their bases outside of their cities. Both countries have untold thousands of terrified civilians paying the price for our wars of terror. I see innocent lives still being blown away in both countries. Innocent American, Iraqi, Afghan, and Pakistani blood still pours into the ground. Halliburton/KBR profits are up. Mission accomplished.
For the cost of Bush’s war for re-election, political capital, and profits for his cronies, we could pay for health care for every American. That paints a pretty clear picture of Neocon values, doesn’t it?
“Why do the lefties always try to spin it to look like the companies made tons of money and paid no taxes?”
Because it is true. Since you have such high regard for responsibility, who do you think should be responsible for paying the tax dollars required to finance the above-mentioned wars? Is it asking too much for corporations who profit from wars to pay some taxes to wage them? Who should pay the taxes to build and maintain the infrastructure, public services, legal system, military, law enforcement, etc.? If corporations bear no responsibility in supporting these “socialist” institutions and public works, even though they freely avail themselves of said services and infrastructure, then that leaves the rest of us to pay for it all. The public gets stuck paying for the facilitation of corporate profit. It looks like we have a new guiding economic principle in the USA. Private corporate profit is to be extracted at the public’s expense.
There are your Fair and Balanced responsibilities, eh?
One thing I hope you understand, FandB, is we both love this country and want what is best for our land and its people. At least I hope you love this country more than you love right wing conservatism. Although our visions of those ends differ, we can co-exist as long as we respect each other’s right to disagree. I won’t call you a goose-stepping fascist if you don’t call me a treasonous commie.
Dave Dubya: “I won’t call you a goose-stepping fascist if you don’t call me a treasonous commie.
”
Don’t worry about FandB, Dave — that’s Chuck’s job around here — to (tongue-in-cheek, of course), call us “commies” and “Stalinists”
And, of course, you nailed it — FandB DID happen to agree with you quite a bit in that retort. Most notably:
Dave Dubya: “undermined by corporate agendas” —
FandB: “They are also undermined by the left wing socialist agendas.”
In FandB‘s retort to that statement of yours, he clearly agrees with you the “Right” (i.e., Corporations) are a major part of the problem and also feels the “Left” isn’t so perfect either on this issue. Great JOB, FandB!!! Yer’ slowly comin’ ’round, bro!
Now don’t go all squishy and liberal on me GTL.
I never said I’m never wrong. I’m just not wrong on that point DD. It appears that you view ‘corporations’ as most socialists and liberals do.
My main point involves personal responsibility. People who buy goods made in China are sending U.S. jobs to China. People who shop at Wal-Mart are putting the little Mom & Pop shops out of business. Etc. The people who are doing these things need to understand and take responsibility for their actions. Blaming the big, bad corporations may be orgasmically satisfying, and I’m sure it makes all the little liberals feel really good about themselves, but the fact is it does Nothing to address the root cause of the problem.
The larger point involves sustaining our culture over the next several hundred years and is well beyond the grasp of most liberal ‘minds’. This is where we get into NAFTA and other Free Trade Agreements, globalization and its Long Term ramifications on the U.S. economy, U.S. citizens, U.S. workers, and our interaction with the global culture. We can keep going the way we are for maybe another 50 to 100 years, but the Long Term survival of our culture depends on finding a solution larger than ourselves. It depends on developing the third world, or rather helping them to develop on their own. The U.S. must demonstrate leadership in this in a way that liberals fail to understand. To paraphrase Stephen Covey, we must find our own voice and help others to find theirs.
Our long term success requires that we look beyond today, beyond this year, and far into the future.
Globalization is here to stay. Accept it. China is on her way to becoming a superpower. Accept it. We need to learn how to accept the changes that are occurring in the world rather than fighting them.
Blaming the big, bad corporations is totally passe.
Do you think Chinese citizens blame their big, bad corporations? Hell no! They embrace them and see the good they are doing for their country, building it up, making it stronger. Just as our corporations have done for us.
Aside: The democrats and liberals referred to Iraq as a quagmire, they compared it to Viet Nam (wrong on both counts by the way). The real quagmire is the liberals inability to move forward. The Party of Hate (aka democrats) still have themselves firmly anchored to the DNC talking points about how Bush and Cheney did this or that and should be prosecuted blah, blah, blah. Get over it Party of Hate! Move On! (pun intended again)
The BEST part of it all, is that the more these Third World countries grow and develop, the more they realize that Freedom and Capitalism are the road to success. And Socialism is the sure road to failure.
Dave Dubya – You also brought up abortion… your comments about that brought a few questions to mind:
“woman’s personal painful decision” — why is the decision painful? Because every woman who has an abortion knows that she is killing her own child. That’s why.
Why do liberals NOT have empathy for the baby that is being executed, often through excruciatingly painful and Torturous “procedures.” Who is protecting their rights?
Liberals are OK with torturing babies to death, but if we waterboard a murderer we should be hanged for Treason. Hmmmm…. Something’s not quite right in the liberal camp.
Have a nice day.
Comments are fixed! C’mon now Dubya — we can’t let FandB have the last word here now, can we?
Hi, GTL,
I tried to be the gentleman and offer FandB the last word. And he graciously obliged. Then, wouldn’t you know it, true to the nature of right wing conservatives everywhere; he takes one more delusional jab. There’s just no satisfying them is there?;-)
Speaking of unlevel playing fields, I wish I had his faith and confidence in “globalization” lifting us along with the rest of the world. I see a little too much of our standard of living and jobs disappearing into that “giant sucking sound” old Ross Perot warned us about.
But, the folks in the penthouses, mansions, and corner offices like it, so that’s what we’re stuck with.
Dave I beg to differ. Us right wing conservatives have more than one delusional jab. I myself have a pretty good deranged left hook.
As for F&B and his fetus empowerment ideas, well tell me YOU don’t have some pet issue. We all have our hot buttons. I daresay you have one regarding corporations. There’s nothing wrong with civilly agreeing to disagree. As Mr. Dudley Malone said: “I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me”.
Yes, Chuck. And I may have used a bit of cutting sarcasm a time or two.
We certainly do have pet issues. Just as FandB is obsessed with rights of the pre-born, I am obsessed with the rights of the post-born.
One frustration I have is with corporate personhood. In our legal system a corporation has all the rights of a person. The problem is they have none of the accountability. A corporation can steal(Enron) and kill,(Blackwater) but unlike a person facing justice, it cannot be imprisoned or executed. They can be fined, but the cost is dumped onto the consumer or taxpayer.
I explain my issue with corporations under the Rasmusson Poll post above. I hope it makes some sense to you.
Dave,we are probably closer on the corporation issue than you think. I would assert that most true Conservatives find corporate influence on our elected officials to be every bit as distasteful as you find it. However,if one scratches the surface of the more egregious corporate behavior,you will find government. This should come as no surprise, since even the most powerful corporation doesn’t possess the ultimate power that government has. Walmart may undercut prices and layoff employees, but it can’t imprison or kill you. There is no Best Buy police that can force one to buy their products. Enron bought legislators to pass new rules,change others. Before the deed was even done they had gamed a system they set in motion. Without government, that would not have been possible.
Exactly. When Big Money works for government, watch closely. When government works for Big Money, watch closer and raise hell.
BTW, Blackwater-like corporations do kill and imprison. “Contractors” imprison and interrogate and kill as well. Wal-Mart and Best Buy are in business to take our money that doesn’t go to KBR (Negligent homicide by faulty wiring).
DD: “A corporation can steal(Enron) and kill,(Blackwater)” — but you left out ‘commit voter fraud (ACORN)’.
Why is it that liberals like to blame the big, bad, scary corporations that they disagree with for all sorts of crimes and evil deeds, but corporations, like ACORN, that serve a liberal agenda are not even mentioned, but are given a pass.
That level of hypocrisy destroys all credibility.
Also; “Wal-Mart and Best Buy are in business to take our money” — Obviously nearly all businesses are in business to make money, but if Wal-Mart and Best Buy were not providing goods and/or services that were very much in demand and desired by the people, they would not be successful.
Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc, etc, etc, all started out as little Mom & Pop shop type businesses. None of them began as multi-national corporations. Each one started with some Individual who had vision and drive and desire, who wasn’t afraid of hard work or putting in long hours to make that vision a reality. But the liberals think that person should be punished for his/her success. They fail to realize that if more people had the guts to work hard and become successful, we would not have the problems we have today. Once again, it comes down to personal responsibility.
You brought up the abortion issue by the way Dubya, whether I am obsessed or not is irrelevant. You (knowing or unknowing) tried to use that sleazy democrat tactic of presenting a faulty premise, then changing the discussion in order to gain tacit acceptance of the faulty premise. In the case of protecting the unborn from the liberal death machine known as abortion, I will call BS on that one every time. But I can understand why you would fail to defend such an indefensible position.