Loading ...John Brennan Plays “Victim” Role In Resignation From Consideration Letter To Barry “Steve” Obama
H/T goes first to MemeOrandum for the Glenn Greenwald (Salon) pull, then to Glenn Greenwald for the Andrew Sullivan (The Daily Dish) pull where he has posted an image of the “Wahh, wahh, sniff, sniff; poor, poor, pitiful me” resignation from consideration letter…
If you happened to click on that last link (above), you read the exact text of the Brennan withdrawal officially deliverred to President-Elect Obama today. If you didn’t happen to take the time to read it, allow me to recap -slash- paraphrase it for you in Gun Toting Liberal™ “speak”:
“Dear Barry, My Old Friend,
Left-wing bloggers hate me because I approve of torture during interrogation processes, as you know, but I’ve gone on the record to state my objection to one particular form of torture — waterboarding of suspects and anti-American-types, be they whom they may.
I can no longer withstand the “torture” these left-wing bloggers are putting me through and I’m taking my hat out of the ring for consideration of being your Secretary of Torture. Please find somebody equally as torturous to fill this vacant slot for the best of our great nation, but perhaps, someone without such a traceable and storied history of torture a man such as myself has established over the years. Otherwise, expect to torque off the far-left-wing bloggers again, and we both know how damaging that can be to our mutual “cause”.
As you know, I’ve never directly authorized any torture; I’ve only followed torture orders issued directly by Bush-Cheney, Incorporated and I’ve made it well know again and again, the fact that out of all of the “enhanced torture techniques” I fully endorse, waterboarding isn’t one of them. Nor will it EVER be.
Pulling fingernails and toenails out with needlenose pliars, on the other hand; well; we BOTH know we’re talking apples and oranges here; the latter being MUCH more civilized than ANY form of waterboarding. Frankly, my friend, we may as well just keep Robert Gates if we’re going to be playing the status quo (Source: The Politico), in my not-so-humble-opinion, Mr. President-Elect.
I’m doing this for nobody else but you, Barry, and our great
Democratic RepublicOligarchy called “America”, Sir. My pro-torture (with the sole exception of waterboarding, of course) points of view will do nothing positive for your popularity rating. And, Sir — knowing I would be responsible for even a two-point “favorable drop” would be forevermore “torturous” for this American patriotic hero.Your friend and supporter always:
John Brennan, YOUR Torture-Master (again, with the SOLE exception of waterboarding) and friend always.
Poor guy. He’s just trying to save America by carrying the Bush-Cheney, Incorporated “torch”; a “torch” our President-Elect Barry-Steve-O apparently does, after all approve of; hence his selection of Mr. Brennan for his top spy-guy. Waterboarding? O-U-T-OUT.
We can only hope and pray Barry “Steve” Obama will wad this resignation frrom consideration letter up and toss it into the roundfile it deserves to rot in. This man, folks, is a “Great American”; a “Great American” of Fox News’ Sean Hannity variety.
***
Other bloggers weigh in (Must Reads): Balloon Juice; The Anonymous Liberal; The Liberal Journal; Crooks and Liars; The Heretik
The Heretik : Company Man // Nov 25, 2008 at 9:29 PM
[...] Not going to happen. No way. No [...]
robert gates will stay in as defense secretary. a moderate if not outright
freemarket capitalist economic advisory team. No tax increases. I,m not complaining mind you, but wouldn’t it have been easier if we would have just went ahead and let mcain carry out his own policies?
Brennan was my 9th grade algebra teacher. It was torture!
Dude… pulling out finger nails is on the same plane as splashing water in the face? Seriously, you need some perspective. By the way, being lead around on a leash hardly counts as torture.
Howdy GTL, I see your ruffling feathers as usual! By the way, having buckets of water splashing and running up your nose over and over again causes one to choke and loose their breath for long periods of time…kinda feels like death.
Keep it goin G
Springer Fan: “having buckets of water splashing and running up your nose over and over again causes one to choke and loose their breath for long periods of time…kinda feels like death” – Yeah, maybe we should just scold the terrorists and send them to bed without their supper, or am I being too rough on the people who would rather behead your family than look at them???
I am really peaved that those intelligence guys were mean to those misunderstood terrorists…especially that nice Mr KSM. What did he ever do to us? I mean other than kill 3000 Americans and personally saw off the head of Danny Pearl with a knife. How dare they fail to read him his Miranda rights?
Fandb, the answer is “no”…but if we’re going to torture let’s make it constitutional law and not tip toe around it as a country…either we say we actually do it or we don’t. In the context of GTL’s article and responses, I responded. Furthermore, there is a debate that some folks are held captive that shouldn’t even be held but are called terrorists…not sure if this is true but it’s been reported. Heck, I don’t even know why we let Bin Laden’s family leave our country when shit hit the fan…but I’m not gonna even get started on that.
Happy Thx Giving Folks! Be Good! ~JS
The Geneva conventions that I read in the Army is something Mr. Brennan used as wood in his fire place on Winter evenings as my brothers and sisters died trying to live Bush’s lie.
The Geneva Conventions do not apply in this situation. The terrorist captives do not represent a country or government that agreed to and signed the accords.
I am not a pacifist, in fact far from it but I agree with Jerry S. We are a nation of law and that is the reason why so many people have come to our shores. America had one of the few, if not the only, armed revolution that did not end up in some sort of dictatorship. Do we now join the barbarians and say the law doesn’t matter under certain circumstances. Do we become the barbarians and use them as the excuse to commit the same acts that they use in order to terrorize? Or do we change our laws?
If a terrorist is not a prisoner of war, then what is he? We do need clarification on this, We called Timothy MeVeigh a domestic terrorist but he was tried as a common criminal and to this day we don’t know how he was financed. If it is right to torture non-citizen terrorists then why didn’t we torture TM until we got the information we needed. And is it right to torture the innocent so that no guilty will escape.
My last question is just how effective is torture? Does it always get the truth or do people under torture break and say whatever they think may stop the torture. Almost everyone has a breaking point as many of our POW’s in Viet Nam found out. And I am not knocking them for breaking. I believe they were heroic to hold out as long as they did.
No, terroists should not be handled with kid gloves but I think secret torturre and secret prisons are not what this country should stand for.
Gaia: “Do we become the barbarians and use them as the excuse to commit the same acts that they use in order to terrorize?” – The premise of this argument is flawed. There are basic disagreements at the core of the issue. One is the question of what constitutes “torture”. I’m sure those who have had their fingernails pulled out, fingers and toes crushed off, bones broken, and so on would consider water-boarding to be about as torturous as taking a warm bath. Waterboarding is not torture. We are not committing the same acts the terrorists use.
This reveals a standard liberal approach to this type of argument. A tactic which Bill Clinton had mastered. The argument begins with a premise, such as “waterboarding is torture”, and then goes on to talk about how bad torture is. If successful, the opponent of waterboarding engages in an argument about the evils of torture – one that is sure to be won. But it was actually the premise that was meant to be legitimized. By arguing about torture, the basic premise that waterboading is torture has been accepted by both sides. This tactic is very effective and liberals have employed it vigorously ever since Slick Willie used it so effectively.
So, understanding that the flawed premise will not be accepted, the argument becomes “are any coercive interrogation techniques acceptable”? Restricting our government/military from using any coercive techniques would be like send a boxer into the ring with his hands tied behind his back. It is a no-win scenario for the good guys.
Another flawed premise often used by liberals is that non-citizens have the same rights as citizens – - – They do not.
All the rantings about John McCain being referred to as songbird, and that he broke under torture and collaborated with the enemy has been thoroughly and completely debunked. These were just more lies that were spread by liberals.
Even if everything you said were true, Gaia, it would not mean that The United States “stands for” those things. The U.S. stands for many, many high ideals. The fact that we can have a discussion like this, openly, publicly, and without fear of retribution, is a clear demonstration that the true fundamental ideals of this country, i.e. what we stand for, have not changed.
Happy Thanksgiving to All!
you guys act like this was invented in the Bush administration. making some prisoners of war more uncomfortable than others, based on individual circumstances, to gleen as much information as possible in order to save the lives of your own has been occuring for thousands of years. These methods are not randomly applied to innocent people. a great deal of information is taken into account before applying harsher techniques of interrogation. the mildly uncomfortable (when compared to our enemies) interrogation techniques applied to SOME prisoners have undoubtedly saved thousands of american lives and probably millions of Innocents. I think it extremely unlikey you will find any mass graves at guantanimo. In contrast that is exactly what we have found from our enemies over the years. Let us maintain some perspective here.
Nice! I’ll add that I think this isn’t a John McCain, George Bush, liberal, far right issue…we get sooo stuck on labels…bottom line is that if we institute TORTURE then make it law. If not, we shouldn’t tip toe and act like we’re not doing it when we are. However, one of my main concerns is for the INNOCENT being TORTURED or held by mistake…not the GUILTY. So I can see why TORTURE is a HOT topic and rightfully so…especially how it’s impact might (be) filter down into our society as a whole i.e. the american people. Furthermore, I would’ve NEVER allowed Bin Laden’s family to leave the United States after 911 happened to begin with….I mean heck, if anyone needed to be interrogated/TORTURED it would’ve been them right? This never made sense to me. The Laden family just flew right on out of the USA without a problem. They were not even interrogated. If Average joe Americans can give up some of our civil liberties due to the partiot act etc…then the Laden family should have to give it ALL up right? Case in point, I’ve known a few people that have been stopped and held at airports i.e. working american professionals. They were interrogated and got held over a few nights. When you see quite a number of normal, American people that look like you (your neighbor, school teacher, executive, educated), being held and some even sent AWAY that are screaming INNOCENCE, it’s a scary thought. They sacrificed more than the Laden Family didn’t they? The one’s that are being TORTURE by mistake risked more also. WE all have!
Did Clinton, Sr. Bush, Reagan do this? I’m sure. TORTURING is an issue we’re dealing with RIGHT now with all the exposure and questioning of human rights/civil liberties that some feel were already stripped at the heart of OUR privacy over the past 8 years and yes prior to Bush’s term. However, the past 8 was a right to privacy disaster zone on our quest to capture Bin Laden. Oh but wait, I meant SADAAM!
Furthermore, the absurdity of how far we’ve taken and used the term TERRORIST in our society is quite shocking to say the least…especially in how it’s been applied to in certain instances. I was in court one day and their was a dispute between a man defending his sister because some guy came to her house pushing her around…this happened in Los Angeles mind you…the judge turned around and said that the brother displayed TERRORIST activity while defending her sister…I was like WHAT? All of a sudden, what seemed to be a simple case just turned complex once the term TERRORIST was stated by the judge. One can tell, this judge said TERRORIST quite frequently in his courtroom out of context, like it was no big deal. However, when the average joe is classified or labeled a TERRORIST in a court of law by a judge, then the rules of law change. Again, another example of how much we’ve given up than the Laden family and innocent folks being TORTURED by mistake or just held without being charged.
If it happens to 1 of us it’s 1 too many..and quite honestly, we’re already passed that number. So again, IF we make TORTURE LAW, we need to understand what we’re choosing to GIVE UP as a country and IF it’s worth the ROI.
TORTURE/TERRORIST/GUILT/INNOCENCE/LAW/PATRIOTACT/AMERICAN PEOPLE
Again, Happy Thanksgiving Everyone & Be Safe
held over a few nights? what are you saying Jerry?
this was American business men with american ID held and interrogated for multiple days, for absolutely no reason?
just randomnly pulled from lines boarding planes and interrogated for multiple days?
with absolutely no reason for cause or suspicion? hmmmm I dont know jerry.
Well…maybe I can get my ex-girlfriend and her husband to blog on here and talk about it as it happened to them about a year ago. Otherwise, maybe researching similar incidents online might be another avenue.
these people were usa citizens,held multiple days in jail, interrogated, after being randomnly pulled from a line at an airport in the usa? with absolutely no cause?
By who ?
no lawyers?
I dont know jerry, I find that one difficult to wrap my mind around. a few hours maybe, days without cause?
I’m skeptical. sounds like a liberal “urban myth” to me.
sorry.
no argument with the label terrorist being overused. as far as the potential for “torture to filter down to citizens” living in the usa, well in IMHO that is what the 2nd amendmant is all about.
an admittedly quick search of the web found no headlines pertaining to detainment of anyone for multiple days after any random airport security checks.
one entry for a guy that had a derogatory remark about the tsa written on his toiletries baggie, held for 25 minutes. Several entries from left wing groups concerning 39 people that were last seen in the usa
being called ghost detainees specul;ation is they were cooked in the whitehouse kitchen and the evidence devoured by W,(kidding,kidding)anyway i’m guessing your ex wasn’t one of those 39. anyway the jist is I could find no incident period of us citizens being held without cause after random security checks in an american airport for muliple days. I also do not recall hearing about any similiar incident, and I listen.
so like I said I’m just not buying this one Jerry.
I would like to say to my candian friends, including you stella, thank you, as I have spent the afternoon enjoying 2 of canada’s finest exports, canada goose and Crown Royal. boy howdy they got it right on that one.
mmmmm mmmmm
vegofish…what I said isn’t determined on whether you believe it or not…”urban myth”? It very well could be unless you live in one of the larger cities like Los Angeles, NY or Houston which are more urban/suburban…folks are more open minded to believe (based on their own experiences), it’s a “possibility” that things like this can happen. All we have to do is look into our history to see that what you call an “urban myth” is actually a possibility. I know for a fact what happened to my ex and her husband and you are entitled to call their experience an “urban myth” and that’s fine…no harm no foul. We agree to disagree. As far as using the word terrorist loosely when it comes to the well being of american citizens…especially in the court of law I don’t agree with.
Again, As I stated In my earlier post regarding torture which was the main topic of discussion:
If it happens to 1 of us it’s 1 too many..and quite honestly, we’re already passed that number. So again, IF we make TORTURE LAW, we need to understand what we’re choosing to GIVE UP as a country and IF it’s worth the ROI.
TORTURE/TERRORIST/GUILT/INNOCENCE/LAW/PATRIOTACT/AMERICAN PEOPLE
Again, Happy Thanksgiving Everyone & Be Safe
GNITE & Happy Drinkin!
Case in point, I’ve known a few people that have been stopped and held at airports i.e. working american professionals. They were interrogated and got held over a few nights.
not a case of agree or disagree jerry,
you either stand behind this statement or you dont. I dont think there is anything to stand behind. enough said
evening all
I stand behind my statement. I never said I didn’t. You don’t buy it and said it was an urban myth…I said it isn’t. That’s it. Nite.
its not even an urban myth jerry, its just a steaming pile of bs. you do not know any american citizen that has been randomly detained and interrogated for multiple days at an american airport. just hasn’t happened jerry. its as simple as that. Making statements like that are just unfortunate because, like i stated earlier I in general agree with much of your statement,
or at least there is certainly some middle ground to be found, but when you add outlandish statements like that, people are considerably less likely to seek that middle ground.
I’m too tired for correcting typos so I apologize for those in advance.
Allright…I called my ex to get as much of the story all over again at 11PM at night…I just felt it was compelling enough to do so being that we’re giving thankful and as we reflect on how fortunate we are in a lot of ways:
speaking with her now…..what she said was that american citizens and other nationalities were being held at the Houston airport and being humiliated. Citizens were there for hours; some longer than a day. What happens is that when your taken, they start asking questions and start searching for everything on you i.e. traffic ticket, warrant…anything to keep you there after they see they don’t have shit on you and not a terrorist. My ex said she was taken back there. She told the police unit she’s paid her taxes and all the stupid threatining questions they were asking her, they could look up themselves on their own. She personally stayed there for about 8 hours and her husband stayed overnight and got out the next day. However, they took some Americans and people with language bariers to jail and quite frangly, how long they were there, who knows. She said These Americans just “broke down” emotionally and started to loose it because they were missing their flights and couldn’t call their families and that’s when they’d get cuffed. She said anyone back there were treated like shit and humiliated. She said they were very agressive and demeaning. They were just as disrespectful to the Americans as much as they were with any other culture there was no difference based on religion, race or social status. She said there were about 50 plus people in this room with her. She tried to calm some of the people down so they wouldn’t loose it and go to jail. She said when you walk into this area, you could cut through the fear and confusion in the air. Folks not wondering why they are being held….forget it IF you don’t speak English.
This is a woman that worked For the Audobon society in Houston at the time, which is designed to protect land, animals and birds i.e the ENVIRONMENT. She’s nowhere near being a terrorist. She was overseas for work with her hubby and others. Now as far as other folks that I’ve said that I met that had the same experience…I didn’t keep track of them via contact information but this is my ex-girlfriend and her husband that went through this.
Now either I’m lying, she’s lying or I’m a DAMN good creative thinker on the fly in a matter of minutes.
Oh and by the way, when my ex goes to the airport, she gets pulled all the time because her drivers license is TAGGED permanently now as a RISK due to the patriot act.
As I said before, we’ve GIVEN UP (surrendered) more than Bin Laden’s family(who we should’ve kept here in the states and interrogated at the least), than they ever will!
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/21/justice.civil.liberties/index.html
well…since you won’t let this go I called my ex to get the full story AGAIN being that the other people that I met had the same experience stayed longer as I said, I didn’t keep up with them in passing:
I apologize for any typos because it is getting late:
Mex and her husband were held in Houston. They were told they looked tired and told the agent they had been flying for 3 hours. They were then asked to follow officers into a room where there were about 50 other people that were being held. She said they could feel the confusion and fear in the air. Their were Americans there and other nationalities and each one of them were being treated in a disrespectful way. My ex said that she was asked a bunch of stupid questions and she told the officers that she pays her taxes and they can go verify whatever they want through their system check. She said people their were “breaking down” and “loosing it”…at this point they would be taken to jail if they wouldn’t calm down. My ex said she saw this happen many times…americans and other people going to jail because they’d “loose it”…not being able to make a phone call to tell people where you are was a major problem for people being held. Her husband stayed overnight and was let out later.
Now when my ex travels, her Driver’s Licence is TAGGED and she gets pulled over and asked questions due to the Patriot Act. Now this is a lady that worked at an Audobon Society in Houston. Their mission is to preserve the land, animals and the ENVIRONMENT as a whole…far from being a terrorist. Now I’m either a DAMN Great Liar that made up this story in 30 minutes or I’m telling the truth…either way it doesn’t matter if you believe it or not, however it’s happening everyday.
As I said before, we’ve sacrificed more as a people and Nation over the past 8 years, on our quest to track down terrorists…especially when we had Bin Laden’s Family hear in the states to interrogate.
If it happens to 1 of us it’s 1 too many..and quite honestly, we’re already passed that number. So again, IF we make TORTURE LAW, we need to understand what we’re choosing to GIVE UP as a country and IF it’s worth the ROI.
TORTURE/TERRORIST/GUILT/INNOCENCE/LAW/PATRIOTACT/AMERICAN PEOPLE
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/21/justice.civil.liberties/index.html
Again, Happy Thanksgiving Everyone & Be Safe
K I’m done here….over and out.
“My ex and her husband”
One last thing, IF we make torture law, then we need to realize and understand that what we put forth we receive as a country, as an American and as an individual.
Be Careful of the Boomerang Effect.
Instant Karma.
let me clarify a couple things here…..My ex said that the agent(police officer) commented that she looked tired. Then her response was that she just visited a country where the police harrassed people over a 3 week period which felt like a Police State. At this time, the words “police state” triggered security.
She said that the words “police state” caused her and her husband to be escorted to the room where the rest of the 50+ people were being held. She said, in that room it felt the same as she did in South America.
At this point, she felt like the laws of the Constitution no longer mattered when it comes to her civil liberties…This is someone that is always optimistic but she’s no longer naive.
So when we use the words TERRORIST, TERRORIST ACT,POLICE STATE loosely, there are ramifications. Just by simple words, civil liberties and our freedom can be taken away whether there is a proof or not. The law is null and void at this point.
She wanted to make sure I was clear on this…important point. It’s 1:30 her time but hey, I’m her ex…she’ll take my calls still! She also said her passport is TAGGED as well.
well not quite the story you gave, but like i said i dont totally disagree with your statement, but i still think you exxagerate the circumstances which severely impacts credibility, the story you sent is fine but still doesnt back up your contention of multiple people over multiple days, and itis dated within the time period that things were awfully tight, with good reason. whether the audoban society harbors and encourages extreme or even terroristic activity is another debate alltogether. regardless,as long as you make exaggerated and outlandish statements you will have trouble bringing me to that middle ground. stick to the truth and people listen better.
so it was a customs official and she was trying to re enter the tsates and during a time of tight security she made a comment that maybe wasn’t well thought out considering the circumstances and was detained for further scrutiny and or observation. not interogated for several days but inconvenienced for a few hours.
now that is a more believable circumstance. pass on to her that as one of the americans that she helped keep safe I apologize to her for her inconveniance, and I thank her for doing her part to make sure we never have what happened on sept 11 2001 ever happen again. and avoid comparing the USA to a police state when she is going through customs. My experience with going through customs is yes sir and no ma’am are the best options.
good night jerry,
yeah and she’ll be sure to pass it along to the people that went to jail as well for “melting down” not being able to make a call to their families, letting them know where they are. I’m sure they were held for a few hours there…all of them.
Good nite Vegofish,
http://www.houstonaudubon.org is not extreme.
she wasn’t comparing the USA to a police state while going through customs…she was telling the agent that she just left a country that felt like a police state while they communicating with one another. She didn’t say the USA was a police state to the officer.
“communicated”
And she’s VERY happy that every time she flies within the US and abroad that she’ll be tagged. As far as the other people I’ve met while flying that had similar stories, I didn’t know them so even though it may come across as an exaggeration, their experiences were similar.
So she was glad to be back and was just expressing the difference between being hear as versus being overseas to the officer at the time.
“being here versus being overseas to the officer at the time.”
Her detainment wasn’t “minimal” at lasted several hours and her husband was held overnight with nothing to hold them on.
Great! Folks that read the prior correspondence will most likely choose to think and evaluate for themselves. Getting agreement isn’t needed. However,the issue with time and duration of detainment seemed to be an issue so I’ll rephrase that along with being in 1st or 2nd person for clarification. Furthermore, I really don’t see the difference between being detained overnight/day or several days when proven innocent, but ok. A minute too long, if innocent is too long. It doesn’t Make sense to detain citizens once we are proven innocent in ANY situation. Furthermore, keeping tabs on citizens is even more ridiculous after being proven innocent…which my ex is experiencing to this day. Oh maybe citizens should take a Patriot Act course for $19.95 somewhere and learn what it means to be a patriot along with what to say and not to say and when; the Torture Act, if it ever comes out should be AWESOME TOO! Can’t Wait! GTL, I know this is on your Santa Wish LIST! I’m sure the terrorists will be taken it too…you know, the one’s we’re truly after and it is meant for!
Rephrased:
I’ll add that I think this isn’t a John McCain, George Bush, liberal, far right issue…we get sooo stuck on labels…bottom line is that if we institute TORTURE then make it law. If not, we shouldn’t tip toe and act like we’re not doing it when we are. However, one of my main concerns is for the INNOCENT being TORTURED or held by mistake…not the GUILTY. So I can see why TORTURE is a HOT topic and rightfully so…especially how it’s impact might (be) filter down into our society as a whole i.e. the american people. Furthermore, I would’ve NEVER allowed Bin Laden’s family to leave the United States after 911 happened to begin with….I mean heck, if anyone needed to be interrogated/TORTURED and DETAINED it should’ve been them right? This never made sense to me. The Laden family just flew right on out of the USA without a problem. They were not even interrogated. If Average joe Americans can give up some of our civil liberties due to the partiot act etc…then the Laden family should have to give it ALL up right? Case in point, I’ve known(MET AT AIRPORTS, GOING THROUGH CUSTOMS ETC.), a few people that have been stopped and held at airports i.e. working american professionals. They were interrogated and got held over a few(1 minute,1hour,1day,1day and 25 hours,1day and 49 hours etc.), nights (could’ve meant daytime depending on what time it happened). When you see quite a number of normal, American people that look like you (your neighbor, school teacher, executive, educated), “that said” they were held and “seen” some even sent AWAY that were screaming INNOCENCE, “was” scary. They sacrificed more than the Laden Family didn’t they? The one’s that are being TORTURED/DETAINED by mistake risked more than the Bin Laden Family. WE all have!
Did Clinton, Sr. Bush, Reagan do this? I’m sure. TORTURING is an issue we’re dealing with RIGHT now with all the exposure and questioning of human rights/civil liberties that some feel were already stripped at the heart of OUR privacy over the past 8 years and yes prior to Bush’s term. However, the past 8 was a right to privacy disaster zone on our quest to capture Bin Laden. Oh but wait, I meant SADAAM!
Furthermore, the absurdity of how far we’ve taken and used the term TERRORIST in our society is quite shocking to say the least…especially in how it’s been applied to in certain instances. I was in court one day and their was a dispute between a man defending his sister because some guy came to her house pushing her around…this happened in Los Angeles mind you…the judge turned around and said that the brother displayed TERRORIST activity while defending her sister…I was like WHAT? All of a sudden, what seemed to be a simple case just turned complex once the term TERRORIST was stated by the judge. One can tell, this judge said TERRORIST quite frequently in his courtroom out of context, like it was no big deal. However, when the average joe is classified or labeled a TERRORIST in a court of law by a judge, then the rules of law change. Again, another example of how much we’ve given up than the Laden family and innocent folks being TORTURED/DETAINED by mistake or just held without being charged.
If it happens to 1 of us it’s 1 too many..and quite honestly, we’re already passed that number. So again, IF we make TORTURE LAW, we need to understand what we’re choosing to GIVE UP as a country and IF it’s worth the ROI.
TORTURE/TERRORIST/GUILT/INNOCENCE/LAW/PATRIOTACT/AMERICAN PEOPLE
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/21/justice.civil.liberties/index.html
Have A Happy Day After Thanksgiving and A Wonderful Weekend! Enjoy!
jeez jerry, I thought you were going to bed. detained at customs, prior to actually physically or officially entering the country is not new, and well predates the patriot act. and has always been at the perogative of the customs officers. Obviously since 9/11 things have been tighter as far as security in our airports and ports of entry and for good reason. I am as proud and protective of my individual liberties as anyone but to not accept that we may have to deal with some added inconveniances when traveling abroad and returning to this country completely ignores the reality of the world we live in today. If people are not willing to accept this, then the police state is absolutely where we are headed, If security measures are not strict and kept strict, the resulting chaos will drive the country closer to this dreaded police state all the time.
Officers at customs do not have crystal balls, and have to make what could be monumental life and death decisions with little information besides what they can get from a short conversation along with observations.
One can expect that some mistakes will be made, hopefully on the side of safety, which would seem to be what happened to your ex. If people can not accept some reasonable intrusion and possibly inconveniance,
the next course of action is armed troops patrolling the airports. it is a testament to how safe our customs officials keep us that that is not the case. Again, tell your ex thank you for doing her part to keep all of us safe.
It once again comes back to that same old thing,
correct is somewhere in the middle.
I guess im confused as to what you feel the answer is to this problem?
against added security at ports of entry
against profiling of potential bad guys(I wont use terroist)
against preemptive attacks to counter bad guys
I guess you must not feel that we live in a dangerous world with people that will kill you simply because of the geographical area you happen to reside in.
well excuse me for possibly inconveniencing you but I would prefer that my children not be killed by some
bad guy (TERRORIST) with a bomb.
yeah I have weird sleeping hours….
Kinda along the same lines of GTL’s most current article…It’s not about inconvenience but about reality. As I said before, we’ve sacrificed more as a people and Nation over the past 8 years, on our quest to track down terrorists…especially when we had Bin Laden’s Family here in the states to interrogate/detain and torture. Furthermore, we should have blasted Bin Laden when we saw him up in the mountains on his way to Afghanistan. Not taking these actions made no sense to me and wasn’t effective; which has contributed to where we are today. The main point is as long as we institute laws and practices that define and go after the real terrorists that bomb and kill people i.e “not us” then we’re being effective. However, if we make torture law, then we need to realize and understand that what we put forth what we receive as a country, as an American and as an individual. We don’t want to bombed one day and nor do we want to wake up and be interrogated/detained or tortured by mistake due to some law we’ve accepted. It’s a fine line.
Be Careful of the Boomerang Effect.
Instant Karma.
“want to be bombed”
Since when did “give our lives for freedom” turn into “give our freedom for lives?”
F&B, Thank you, I had a great Thanksgiving and just returned home. I’m worn out but I wanted to make one thing clear to you. I was not even thinking of John McCain when I made my remarks about our POW’s in Viet Nam. Literally, his name did not even enter my mind. I was, instead, thinking of two of the POW’s who were forced somehow to make confessions of being war criminals. The Viet Cong filmed them while they were reading from their written “confessions”, and of course these gainy films were shown on TV’s world wide. One of them held his sheet of paper in his right hand and prominently displayed his middle finger throughout, with his other fingers turned down. During parts of his reading he would bend his finger and then straighten it out again and tap the paper, like when he said he wasn’t being forced to confess, that it was of his own free will and when he said that he and his fellow captives were being treated well. The other POW, when he got to the part where he was allowed to say something to his loved one, told his wife that he really hoped that the Red Sox won the pennant again this year like they did last year. The Red Sox were so far in the basement at that time and had been for years that the only pennant they could hope to win was for leaving the field first.
These men were definant to the end and did what they could to get the truth out to their fellow Americans. I’ve often wondered just how much useful information the Cong got out of them. Very little, I imagine.
And now I am going to go lay down but I will leave you with this one thought from that famous philosopher, Pogo, “We have met the enemy and he is us”.
Hope you all had a wonderful day.
If taking off my shoes or being scrutinized heavier at the airport, or beng questioned more extensively at ports of entry or my vehicle searched. or even in the rare circumstance that i am inconvenienced for a period of time and it keeps my children safe then it is worth it. inconveniences of a little slice of personal time is NOT giving up our freedoms, to say that it is belittles the freedoms we do enjoy and mocks the people who truly know oppression.
midnight sun. there is a big difference between citizens who become warriors and give their life to a cause as precious as true freedom and the deaths of innocent people who did not make that
conscious choice, but give up there lives because someone at the aclu said it was wrong to scrutinize someone. BIG DIFFERENCE
and no offense to you gaia but pogo is a dumbass, the enemy kills innocent people without conscious nor remorse, we do not.